North Korea says it will stage nuke test

[Sikander]

Originally posted by thesilentone
Compare the cowboys in the old wild west of america, with the mujihadeen in sudan of today...

The scummy cowboy of the 19th century was culturally centuries ahead of the mujihadeen in Sudan.

[thesilentone]

Right, culture is MUCH more important than their actions

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Darius871
Hell, one could argue every inch of land west of the Appalachians has been "taken" by the U.S. (not just the Southwest), since the natives didn't exactly sign it all over. I can't think of any valid examples in the 20th century though, or the 21st for that matter.

Louisiana purchase?

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by PLATO


Louisiana purchase?

Just because it was bought off the french, who were hardly using the territory, doesn't make it any less of an act of theft against the native residents. But wow are we off topic, my only intent was to remind certain posters that america is no angel (and nor is my own country).

Down with North Korea! That was the topic right?

Iran getting nukes is bad enough, but they're a hell of a lot more stable than NK :/

[PLATO]

Originally posted by thesilentone


Just because it was bought off the french, who were hardly using the territory, doesn't make it any less of an act of theft against the native residents. But wow are we off topic, my only intent was to remind certain posters that america is no angel (and nor is my own country).

An act of theft by the French!

Originally posted by thesilentone

Down with North Korea! That was the topic right?

Indeed! Sorry to get so off topic.

Originally posted by thesilentone

Iran getting nukes is bad enough, but they're a hell of a lot more stable than NK :/

Not so sure that the Iranian situation is really more stable. DPRK is well bracketed by two strong countries (both economically and militarily) in China and ROK. Hopefully this would keep any meltdown contained and deter any idiots from doing something stupid with the nukes.

Iran, OTOH, has religious zealotry going for it...as well as being in an area of great instability. While their government apparatus appears to be more stable than DPRK, any stumble could have much greater consequences.

All that being said, Kim may just be stupid enough to use a nuke on somebody and I don't think the Clergy in Iran are that stupid.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by thesilentone
Compare the cowboys in the old wild west of america, with the mujihadeen in sudan of today...

More bull****.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by thesilentone


Just because it was bought off the french, who were hardly using the territory, doesn't make it any less of an act of theft against the native residents. But wow are we off topic, my only intent was to remind certain posters that america is no angel (and nor is my own country).

Down with North Korea! That was the topic right?

Iran getting nukes is bad enough, but they're a hell of a lot more stable than NK :/

I would suggest you study some history.

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by SlowwHand



I would suggest you study some history.

I appreciate your eloquence, but pardon me, exactly where have I failed you?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by thesilentone
Right, culture is MUCH more important than their actions

I don't know, but when I play with Cultural Victory enabled... wars can go all around me, but my four central cities always become shining beacons of civilization...

[thesilentone]

Iran, OTOH, has religious zealotry going for it...as well as being in an area of great instability. While their government apparatus appears to be more stable than DPRK, any stumble could have much greater consequences.

All that being said, Kim may just be stupid enough to use a nuke on somebody and I don't think the Clergy in Iran are that stupid.

Yeah, probably stupidity or just plain psychosis would've been a better description. I don't really think they'd ever use them (given current "reasons" they might have) but I'm not sure I'd put it past them selling something nasty to the many terrorist groups out there. And as a brit that scares me. While I'm somewhat grateful the US is seen as THE great satan, I think they'd settle for wiping out central london too.

[SlowwHand]

silentone, Ayatollahs. Against everything, and the big reason Persians (the ones I know don't even want to be called Iranian) left to come here. Drop your probablies and go.

N. Korea is warned against nuke test

By JAE-SOON CHANG, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago

SEOUL, South Korea -
North Korea's neighbors issued stern warnings Wednesday against Pyongyang's threat to carry out an unprecedented nuclear test, but the isolated communist country insisted that such a move wouldn't be meant as a provocation.

South Korean officials said there was no sign a test was imminent and warned that such a test could prompt Japan to developing atomic weapons and threaten a regional arms race.

A newspaper in Japan, meanwhile, reported that two Japanese spy satellites had not observed any preparation activities at a suspected underground test site.

China — the North's main ally and key benefactor — called on Pyongyang to show calm and restraint, issuing an unusually pointed statement that referred to North Korea by name. The statement contrasted with earlier Chinese responses, which have typically called for restraint from all sides in the dispute.

"We hope the North Korean side will be sure to keep calm and restrained on the nuclear test issue," Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said on the ministry Web site.

China, Japan and
South Korea also announced a series of summits among their leaders next week, ratcheting up diplomacy over tensions caused by the North's announcement Tuesday that it intends to detonate a bomb.

Such a test would confirm the North's claim that it has atomic weapons, and would severely undermine efforts to prevent an Asian nuclear arms race by getting Pyongyang to disarm.

South Korea's top official on dealings with the North, Unification Minister Lee Jong-seok, said Wednesday that there were no definite signs that the test is imminent.

However, Lee also told lawmakers there was "a high possibility" it would eventually take place if "efforts to resume the six-party talks fail."

Japan's Asahi newspaper, citing unidentified government sources, reported that two Japanese spy satellites focusing on a suspected underground test site had not observed any activities that could appear connected to test preparations as of Tuesday.

North Korea has boycotted six-nation nuclear talks with China, Japan, Russia, South Korea and the U.S. for nearly a year, angered by American financial restrictions imposed over the North's alleged illegal activities such as money laundering and counterfeiting.

An official at the North's embassy in Australia, Pak Myong-guk, who described himself as a minister, insisted Pyongyang's planned nuclear test "is not provocative."

"It is just the corresponding measure for defense, for us to defend ourselves," Pak told The Associated Press. "It is the really essential process for nuclear deterrent."

The North often insists it needs nuclear weapons to deter a U.S. attack, although this was the first time that Pyongyang had publicly announced its intent to conduct a nuclear test.

South Korea's President Roh Moo-hyun urged a "cool-headed and stern" response to the North's announcement. The Foreign Ministry said a nuclear test by North Korea could cause a change in its engagement policy toward the communist regime.

"If North Korea pushes ahead with a nuclear test, North Korea should take full responsibility for all consequences," Foreign Ministry spokesman Choo Kyu-ho said after an emergency meeting of South Korean security ministers.

Asked to elaborate on what the consequences would be, Choo said a North Korean nuclear test could bring about a "shift" in Seoul's engagement policy toward the North, but stressed that wouldn't mean abandoning that policy altogether.

South Korea has pursued dialogue with North Korea since their leaders first met in a historic summit in 2000. That approach has caused a rift with Washington, which favors a harder line toward the communist regime.

Seoul is one of the main aid providers to the impoverished North, but it suspended regular relief shipments after Pyongyang carried out missile tests on July 5. However, the South later agreed to send emergency aid to help the North cope with the effects of massive floods that struck the country in mid-July.

Despite the nuclear test threat, the South on Wednesday shipped previously promised aid to the North, including 6,400 tons of cement, the Unification Ministry said.

"As North Korea has yet to conduct a nuclear test, it is difficult to immediately halt sending flood relief aid, which is being provided on a humanitarian basis," a ministry official said on condition of anonymity, citing official policy.

After the missile launches, the
U.N. Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution banning all U.N. members from missile or missile-related dealings with the North.

South Korean Vice Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said the Security Council is expected to take stronger action against Pyongyang if it tests a nuclear weapon.

North Korea "will face a strong and united response from the international community" if it conducts a test, Yu told a regular news briefing.

Speaking later to lawmakers, Yu warned a North Korean nuclear test "could provide a pretext for Japan's nuclear armament. "

"This will prompt countermoves by China or Russia and lead to a change in the balance of power in the Northeast Asia," he said.

U.S. Ambassador John Bolton raised the issue during a regularly scheduled meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday, and the 15-nation council decided to meet Wednesday morning to address the issue.

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said "we simply could not accept" a nuclear test by the North.

Abe will head to China on Sunday and to Seoul on Monday, and Roh will travel to Beijing on Oct. 13.

Russia, another key Pyongyang ally, has urged the North to show restraint. Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov also voiced concern Wednesday about the environmental fallout from a possible nuclear test.

In Australia, North Korean Ambassador Chon Jae-hong was summoned to meet senior officials on Wednesday and "was warned in the strongest possible terms of the severe consequences should North Korea conduct a nuclear test," Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said in a statement.

"A nuclear test would be completely unacceptable to the international community, and would provoke a very strong international response," Downer said.

The news sent the South Korean stock market tumbling. The market closed down 1.6 percent Wednesday after recovering from deeper lows earlier in the day.

Pyongyang has not conducted any known test to prove its claim that it has nuclear weapons. Some experts believe the North has enough fissile material to build a half-dozen or more nuclear bombs, though there are doubts about whether it could deliver them accurately on a warhead.

Although North Korea is dotted with underground military installations, media reports in South Korea have identified North Hamkyong province on the North's northeast coast as a likely site for a nuclear test.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
We have a base in the Phillipines, but it's not occupation.

.

Er, no. We dont have a base in the Phillipines. We HAD Subic Bay and Clark Field. They asked us to leave, we left.

[SlowwHand]

Had. Which goes more to my point than...my point.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by PLATO
All that being said, Kim may just be stupid enough to use a nuke on somebody and I don't think the Clergy in Iran are that stupid.

It amazes me that everyone thinks that KIM Jong-Il is stupid or crazy.

I mean, ****... he's able to retain his power with his "godhood" as Dear Leader in his tiny nation, brooking absolutely no dissent. He's able to lead the other five nations in the six-party talks around by the nose (China, SKorea, Japan, Russia, US)...

When you think about it, if you think KIM's dumb, what does that make the current US government, who hasn't had a clue how to deal with him since they took power six years ago?
First they don't talk to him 'cause we don't like him, and Clinton talked to him--and the find out he plays brinksmanship well.
Then we do talk to him, trying to pick up where Clinton left off--and find out that he's decided to set us back to square two.
Then we try to hasten along the process of finding a happy medium, and he decides he doesn't like it, and does the brinksmanship thing again.

He's not dumb. He's not even that crazy. He knows what he has, and out of desperation, paranoia, or some such, he's using the crazy man theory of IR to get what he wants--and he knows nobody can do **** about it, because it would be an unmitigated disaster all around. It's quite rational.

[LordShiva]

Nukes aren't defensive weapons at all. They're status symbols, pure and simple.