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I have seen paradise . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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  • I have seen paradise . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    There are a lot of people here who believe in the multicultural dream , of people from different cultures intermingling but still maintaining their unique identity . It is their belief that when society becomes tolerant enough to become multicultural , social problems of discrimination will disappear and we will be in a social utopia .

    To be brief : I've lived in such a utopia . And it's one of the best places to be on this Earth .

    The history of Indore does not make it seem as if it is remarkable in any way , or as if it would be a place where multiculturalism would thrive .


    Origin of name

    The name Indore originated from the historical temples of Indreshwar and Indrapur. With time this was changed to Indore.
    [edit]

    History

    Indore was formerly ruled by the Maratha Maharajas of the Holkar dynasty. The dynasty's founder, Malhar Rao Holkar, (1694-1766), was granted control of Maratha armies in Malwa in 1724, and in 1733, he was installed as the Maratha governor of the region. By the end of his reign, the Holkar state was de facto independent. He was succeeded by his daughter-in-law Ahilyabai Holkar who ruled from 1767 to 1795. She ruled from a palace-fort at Maheshwar, south of Indore on the Narmada River. Ahilyabai Holkar was an architectural patron, who donated money for construction of Hindu temples across India. In 1818, the Holkars were defeated by the British in the Third Anglo-Maratha War, and the Holkar kingdom became a part of the British Raj. As a result of this defeat in the Battle of Mahidpur, the treaty of Mandsaur was signed through which the Cantonment town of Mhow was handed over to the British. It was as a result of this treaty that the capital of Holkar state shifted from Maheshwar to Indore.

    After India's independence in 1947, Indore, together with a number of neighbouring princely states, became part of the Indian state of Madhya Bharat. Indore was designated the summer capital of this newly created state. On November 1, 1956, Madhya Bharat was merged into Madhya Pradesh, with Bhopal as the capital city.
    The Marathas restored a feeling of self-pride to the local populace . They gave them the idea that they were capable of governing themselves , and got rid of imperialist Mughal rule . Holkar administration is held up as an example to rulers who rule us today .

    The legacy of the Holkars exists even today .

    Ahilyabai Holkar is considered one of the great rulers India has produced . Indore is one of the few places where there is a tradition of strong , wise , and in general sound female rulers . Even today , the MP from Indore district is a woman . She holds such sway over the local populace , and defeat was so certain for her opponent , that nobody from the opposing party wanted to even stand for the last election ! Somebody stoof , of course , but he didn't really try .

    Holkar rule has given the locals something which probably no other rulers could have given them - a successful , working multicultural society . The Holkars had no problems including people from all castes , regions , languages , and religions in their administration and army . There has not been a single religious or linguistic clash in Indore since Holkar times .

    There is no caste feeling - for if there was , how could a Brahmin have become so popular as to be the MP?

    There is no linguistic discrimination - for how else could a Marathi person have become a MP in a Hindi-speaking ares ?

    There is no gender problem - for how else could our MP be a woman ( and how could we have a legacy of so many women rulers , respected till today ) ?


    Even when there was rioting based on religion in other states , when the entire nation was tense , Indore was unaffected . Nobody really cared .

    There is no feeling of "native" and "outsider" . Even though we come from Maharashtra , we are and were included without considering our origin . Nobody is conscious of it - and neither are we .

    During Maratha rule , even the Muslims had become a part of the mainstream . It is only later , after independence , that they have withdrawn into a ghetto of their own making . The good thing is , the liberal Muslims have no problem moving out of the ghetto - they are welcomed by the society outside it , our society , with open arms . And the ones in the ghetto know enough not to cause trouble .

    Once , a ghetto thug was being chased by a policeman . Somebody threw a tile at him . It hit him on the head and he died . That did it . The local police commissioner arrested the thug he was chasing , as well as rounding up all the prominent criminals in the ghetto who thought themselves above the law , and bound them in chains and ropes and paraded them throughout the city before locking them up . He also literally "broke open" the Muslim quarter - everyone who was connected with that tile-thrower was arrested and questioned , and all illegal activities within that area were stopped .

    We haven't had any trouble with the Muslims since .

    The state is , if anything , even more harsh with Hindu troublemakers . It is , in fact , very harsh with every troublemaker . And that is why there has been no religious riot in Indore since Holkar times .

    Can this model of multiculturalism work outside Indore - a strong state , ruthless with trouble-causing elements , allowing everyone to live their own way ?

  • #2
    OK.
    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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    • #3
      did you read all that?
      Monkey!!!

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      • #4
        www.my-piano.blogspot

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        • #5
          New York is the success story of the multiculturalist dream. Everywhere else? Not much so. But NYC is special in that sense and it's great.
          In da butt.
          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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          • #6
            Whatever, doesn't sound like paradise if you're Muslim... sounds like hell. The view is always good from the top, as they say. You only think it's paradise because you refuse to see how you are sheiting on those below.
            Monkey!!!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Japher
              Whatever, doesn't sound like paradise if you're Muslim... sounds like hell. The view is always good from the top, as they say. You only think it's paradise because you refuse to see how you are sheiting on those below.
              Uhh . . . . WTF ? I've met Muslims , and they have no complaints . My friend used to complain that it was people in the ghetto that troubled him for associating with non-Muslims like me , not people outside .

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pekka
                New York is the success story of the multiculturalist dream. Everywhere else? Not much so. But NYC is special in that sense and it's great.

                Montreal is number 1 Pekka.

                In 2006, both Traveler's Digest and AskMen.com ranked Montreal as the number one city in the world to live in for its culture, architecture, history and ambience


                Spec.
                -Never argue with an idiot; He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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                • #9
                  Well I might be wrong. Montreal might be also working very well. I have no experience of Montreal though so I didn't mention that.
                  In da butt.
                  "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                  THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                  "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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                  • #10
                    My friend used to complain that it was people in the ghetto that troubled him for associating with non-Muslims like me , not people outside .
                    I would think that in paradise there wouldn't be ghettos, or people complaining.
                    Monkey!!!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aneeshm
                      I have seen paradise . . . . . . . . . . . . .


                      Please tell me that the paradise you saw had a less significant space bar.
                      Founder of The Glory of War, CHAMPIONS OF APOLYTON!!!
                      1992-Perot , 1996-Perot , 2000-Bush , 2004-Bush :|, 2008-Obama :|, 2012-Obama , 2016-Clinton , 2020-Biden

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Japher


                        I would think that in paradise there wouldn't be ghettos, or people complaining.
                        It is the Muslim obsession with "losing their identity" that leads to them concentrating into self-created ghettoes . Maybe ghettoes isn't the best word . I should ideally say "areas" or "quarters" . As I told you , nobody minds them , but they mind mixing with others .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pekka
                          New York is the success story of the multiculturalist dream. Everywhere else? Not much so. But NYC is special in that sense and it's great.
                          If NYC is a multiculturalist success story, why is it so segregated? Look beyond the glitz of trendy areas of Manhattan and you'll see a different NYC.
                          ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                          ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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                          • #14
                            Cali? You still alive!

                            Spec.
                            -Never argue with an idiot; He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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                            • #15
                              Just barely
                              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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