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  • "Tactical defeat" of Taliban

    Official reports are that the Taliban chose to stand and fight in Southern Afghanistan during Operation Medusa. Not surprisingly, the Taliban were slaughtered. Roughly 1,000 to 1,500 dead -- about 1/3rd or 1/4th of the Taliban's fighting capacity. 19 NATO soldiers were killed.

    Do you believe that the NATO commander is portraying the battle accurately, and, if so, why did the Taliban choose to stand and fight a battle with little chance of winning?

    This battle was Canadian-led, by the way.

    By Will Dunham

    WASHINGTON, Sept 20 (Reuters) - NATO's southern Afghanistan offensive this month killed 1,000 to 1,500 Taliban fighters, a large chunk of the entire force, passing a major test on the battlefield, its top operational commander said on Wednesday.

    Gen. James Jones, NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe, also said alliance allies have committed to provide at least 2,000 of the roughly 2,000-2,500 extra troops he sought to bolster the 20,000-strong NATO force in Afghanistan.

    "There are some countries that I'm not free to announce that are going to make some contributions in the near future," the U.S. Marine Corps general told a Pentagon briefing.

    Jones provided a higher enemy death toll than NATO previously had given for the two-week Operation Medusa offensive, which ended last weekend.

    The commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan said on Sunday NATO and Afghan troops had driven Taliban insurgents out of the Panjwai district, near Kandahar in southern Afghanistan.

    Asked how many Taliban fighters were killed, Jones said, "I would say it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of around 1,000. ... If you said 1,500, it wouldn't surprise me. But I think that's a fair number."

    NATO had said more than 400 insurgents were killed. The Taliban denied such losses. Five Canadians and 14 Britons also died in the operation. Jones said 20,000 villagers were displaced.

    Canadian, British and Dutch soldiers are leading a NATO push into the south, the most lawless part of Afghanistan, and have faced a more aggressive Taliban than expected.

    "I think a major test was passed in Medusa," Jones said.

    "There are a lot of people out there that said, 'Will NATO fight? Won't they fight?'"

    Jones said the Taliban "suffered a tactical defeat in the area where they chose to stand and fight," and was forced to retreat, but: "I don't think they've been totally defeated."

    Jones said the Taliban force in Afghanistan numbers 3,000 to 4,000 "hard-core" fighters, not including others paid as "weekend warriors."

    NATO REINFORCEMENTS

    Jones appealed to NATO allies on Sept. 7 to send 2,000 to 2,500 more troops to reinforce the NATO force that has moved into the south.

    The appeal initially went unheeded, but Jones announced on Wednesday "we will go beyond the 2,000 manpower figure" when counting troop pledges made publicly and other pledges that Jones declined to detail.

    Poland said last week it would send 1,000 more troops early next year. Romania said on Monday it will send 200 to the south next month.

    "We have enough troop strength to counter anything they want to throw at us," Jones said. A separate U.S. force in Afghanistan numbers 21,000.

    Jones expressed renewed alarm about the Afghan drug trade.

    "We're not making progress. We're losing ground. And that has to be reversed because it affects the entire fabric, social structure, economic structure, and it supports the insurgency," Jones said.

    "I think that we're still at the stage in the war on narcotics of finding definition for an agreed-upon strategy that says, 'This is how we're going to win this fight.'"

    But Jones repeated NATO's position that narcotics is not a military problem, saying, "Having NATO troops out there burning crops, for example, is not going to significantly contribute to the war on drugs."

    A U.N. report said poppy cultivation will soar to record levels in Afghanistan this year, yielding 92 percent of the world's supply of opium, the raw material for heroin.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Always take estimates of enemy casualties with a grain of salt.

    That being said, I certainly hope hope this tactical victory will help lead to a strategic one.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      It was because it was Canadian lead. The Taliban heard this.. thought that the canadians only were in Afganistan to give the Americans something to shoot at when they were bored, and attacked.

      They (and the world) were proven worng.

      Jon Miller
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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      • #4
        I hope they are somehow correct, but it's hard to say. I wished NATO would provide them the reinforcements they need quicker (yeah I know, Ger is also not playing a good role here currently).

        OTOH it's hard to win decisively as long the taliban can safely redraw across the borders to Pakistan.
        Blah

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        • #5
          I wonder whether we're getting sucked in to taking on too much in Afghanistan. The US hasn't been gung ho about NATO taking on more responsibilities; rather, it has been other NATO members.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #6
            If there were enough troops, they could close the Afghan/Pakistani border from the Afghan side.....
            “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

            ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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            • #7
              Um... I don't get the sense that's an easily sealable border. "Enough troops" in that case might mean hundreds of thousands or more.

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah so?

                There are over a hundred thousand nearby in Iraq....
                “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  I wonder whether we're getting sucked in to taking on too much in Afghanistan. The US hasn't been gung ho about NATO taking on more responsibilities; rather, it has been other NATO members.
                  Yeah, and you leaving Southern and Eastern Afghanistan to fester as a Taliban stronghold is why we had to go in and do the job.

                  You've spread yourself too thin. Doing 2 jobs half-assed is a bad idea. You should have done one job properly.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

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                  • #10
                    Re: "Tactical defeat" of Taliban

                    Originally posted by DanS
                    Official reports are that the Taliban chose to stand and fight in Southern Afghanistan during Operation Medusa. Not surprisingly, the Taliban were slaughtered. Roughly 1,000 to 1,500 dead -- about 1/3rd or 1/4th of the Taliban's fighting capacity. 19 NATO soldiers were killed.

                    Do you believe that the NATO commander is portraying the battle accurately, and, if so, why did the Taliban choose to stand and fight a battle with little chance of winning?

                    This battle was Canadian-led, by the way.
                    I've read an interesting article by my national newspaper that above figures most probably point out that:

                    A) the casualty numbers are overestimated

                    or

                    B) the estimated fighting force of the Taliban has been vastly underestimated.

                    I'm inclined to agree, and most probably B) is correct, given the relentless fighting and suicide bombing that is still going on as we speak.
                    The root cause is probably the attempt to seperate (in rethorics) the hardcore Taliban from the general opposition to any invader, making the overall opposition to NATO much larger and violent then the de facto Taliban forces.
                    "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
                    "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                      Yeah, and you leaving Southern and Eastern Afghanistan to fester as a Taliban stronghold is why we had to go in and do the job.

                      You've spread yourself too thin. Doing 2 jobs half-assed is a bad idea. You should have done one job properly.
                      My opinion has been that we are doing the right thing by doing no more than playing whackamole.

                      I'm baffled as to why the Taliban allowed themselves to be whacked in this instance.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Every now and then they have to pop their towels out of the ground to see where they stand as a fighting force.
                        Founder of The Glory of War, CHAMPIONS OF APOLYTON!!!
                        '92 & '96 Perot, '00 & '04 Bush, '08 & '12 Obama, '16 Clinton, '20 Biden, '24 Harris

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DanS


                          My opinion has been that we are doing the right thing by doing no more than playing whackamole.
                          You are wrong, and this attitude will lead to a failure of the Afghan state as soon as American air power leaves the region
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            I'm baffled as to why the Taliban allowed themselves to be whacked in this instance.


                            Because we put men in harm's way in order to pin them down while the aircraft and arty triangulated on them and squashed them like bugs.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KrazyHorse


                              ...will lead to a failure of the Afghan state as soon as...
                              "post reported"Winston, on the barricades for freedom of speech
                              "I don't like laws all over the world. Doesn't mean I am going to do anything but post about it."Jon Miller

                              Comment

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