My beef with Gandhi

[Pekka]

I've brought this up several times during the last few years. This popped up again as India had some kind of celebration day and I respected good taste and stayed out of that thread.

Well, I think the time now has passed and respectfully I can now show you the true face of... or should I say two faces of that man.

Ok, did he have an influence with his non-violent resistance and basically India was free? Sure.

But would India still be under UK if it wasn't for Gandhi. No, they'd be free. Granted, few more years but still less than a decade. So what? I know it's still a big accomplishment, but let's not get excited.. when we weigh in the negative sides, you will quite happily agree that he was a bad man. A loser who got lucky in one thing. So what. Means nothing.

Now, first off, his non-violent resistance was OK in this case, however he left his people in GRAVE DANGER. What if the Brits would have just slaughtered everyone? Hey, thanks Gandhi for leaving us here... #1 thing, you take care of your people. You don't take risks like that, doing hippie crap. If you want to play it like that, do it with your own little group of friends in some little community where you can get bashed by locals, but don't take risks like that with the entire people. That's just crazy.

He also thought, that Hitler could be changed with non-violent resistance. Did I say he got lucky the first time? Second time he would have gotten his ass handed, plus all his fellows.

He also thought that Jewish people should 'accept' the fate, so they'd win God's love. That's NUTS!!!! They were playing it nice for a long time and look what happened idiot Gandhi? They were TOO nice already.

No, when you're defending, you must be vigilant, kill and maim. Not some 'let's sing songs and hold hands and get crushed by this tank. It will be an inspiration to other hand holders!!!'.

Oh, did I mention he also was supporting the commies, plus he was also a vegan. Can you come up with any other big name, leader of big magnitude who was vegan?

And I think I don't even have to mention the whole pedophile thing, since there's stuff condemning his crazy ways here without bringing it up. So there. He got lucky, and if I have to go to hell, I'll kick his silly ass for all the misery he cost to the world.

He also is party responsible for the mess in Pakistan now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But would India still be under UK if it wasn't for Gandhi. No, they'd be free.

How do you know? India's indepedance from Britain after WW2 began a chain reaction.

Now, first off, his non-violent resistance was OK in this case, however he left his people in GRAVE DANGER. What if the Brits would have just slaughtered everyone? Hey, thanks Gandhi for leaving us here... #1 thing, you take care of your people. You don't take risks like that, doing hippie crap. If you want to play it like that, do it with your own little group of friends in some little community where you can get bashed by locals, but don't take risks like that with the entire people. That's just crazy.

Because the Palestinians have sure done well the other way.

I guess Martin Luther King, Jr. shouldn't have done his hippie crap either.

He also is party responsible for the mess in Pakistan now.

Bull****. Radicals are responsible for that. Gandhi didn't even want partition.

Basically, Pekka, you are a nutjob.

[Pekka]

Palestinians? So what you're saying is that if Nazis would have stormed India, they should have played it cool and win the God's love by dying without hurting anyone? No Imran, THAT is BS, just like your baseless assertions.

And I don't even call you a nutjob or names, because I have more class than that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But the Nazis DIDN'T storm India, you fool! Gandhi knew he was dealing with a democracy.

What, you think that since we dealt with the Nazis by violence, ever crisis should be done the same way?

[Pekka]

That's what I asked you, since you brought Palestine into the question. Tell me, how many times have self defense been victiorious (in states of war and imminent threat) sitting on your ass, or physically defending yourself? So it is you who is saying non-violence works. No it doesn't. It might work on the street with a common man, but when we have feuds, it won't work. He got lucky.

It's like leaving your family naked to be slaughtered because 'you have a good feeling about it'. I'd rather take a fighting chance or escaping chance than to do emotional appeal. And you are calling me a fool? I never called you names and I won't start now, you are way too aggressive here. Not very Gandhi-like.

And oh yeah, because you're dealing with democracy, that means you'll never get screwed over or killed? Dadadaa it's reality time, wake up.

[Imran Siddiqui]

In democratic societies, passive resistance is very powerful. It didn't just work (with stunning success) in India, but also for blacks in the US under Martin Luther King, Jr., who used Gandhi's tactics.

He didn't get 'lucky'. If it just happens once, it is luck. When it happens a second time, then perhaps it may have been a good strategy.

Protests are also non-violent strategies and look how they've worked in the former Soviet Bloc, the Orange Revolution, the Cedar Revolution, etc. The Soviet Union didn't finally collapse because of violence, but because of passive resistance and non-violent protest.

[Guynemer]

Beef... Gandhi... that's funny.

[Darius871]

ahh... missed that cowbell.

[Pekka]

No, it was pure luck, because you never know the reaction to your passive action. That's just a fact, you can never be sure.

SU collapsed to protests? Let me check your LOL and raise it with ROFL.

When you are in a democracy, you're talking about Martin Luther King Jr., who WAS a real man with guts and was right and good, it's unfair to compare him to Gandhi. Even the situation was not the same, better yet bring SU to this... oh man, that's just not comparable, and you're now twisting the facts too how SU collapsed. And no, it didn't collapse because of violence, but it didn't collapse with hippies waving banners either.

Protests are good democratic way to do things, however, self defense is a different thing, you should know this.

[Cyclotron]

SU collapsed to protests? Let me check your LOL and raise it with ROFL.

When you are in a democracy, you're talking about Martin Luther King Jr., who WAS a real man with guts and was right and good, it's unfair to compare him to Gandhi.

I'll see your ROFL and raise it with ROFL LMAO. On what basis do you say that MLK was a "real man" with guts, and right and good, and that Gandhi was not?

[Pekka]

He had balls. Gandhi didn't.

non-violence does not make one man or not man as much as violence does not make one a man.

That's not they key factor. All the stuff I explained made Gandhi not only a sissy but also a traitor and huge risk taker, too much like playing cards with God and see what happens.

All of you seem to be fans of Gandhi. This is clouding your judgement on the man with no character. MLK had character. And he was badass. Gandhi lacked both.

[Barnabas]

Pekka

Ghandi´s pacifism was bound to win because there were hundreds of millions of indians, the english just couldnt slughter them all, pacifism is only risky when it is performed by a small group that can be exterminated easily

[LordShiva]

I will tolerate pretty much any insult against Gandhi, except calling him a vegan - he was vegetarian! (not much better, but still )

Regarding having balls: If there is a law you think is unjust or immoral, it sure as hell takes balls to go up to the people enforcing it, to break it, and to say "Hey, I'm breaking your law because it is unjust. If you want to stop me, you need to kill me. Oh, nice rifle, by the way."

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Pekka
Palestinians? So what you're saying is that if Nazis would have stormed India, they should have played it cool and win the God's love by dying without hurting anyone?

The Indians had a special place in the Nazi worldview. Afterall, they were descended from Aryans. The Nazis weren't going to slaughter the Indians (and didn't the third Reich actually have a division made up of Indian soldiers? Did that happen, or was it just a plan?)

[FrostyBoy]

I think Civilization I's image of Ghandi has tormented Pekka for life.