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no, now
you all "ah man, I lost $50 in one hand!"
he goes "oh yeah, let me tell you a story."
you all "ah man, I lost $50 in one hand!"
he goes "oh yeah, let me tell you a story."
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Nah, the other side of the trade is another hedge fund from Houston area.
Rumors also have it that Goldman Sachs was on the other side, too.
This blowout was bigger than the Long Term Capital Management one in 1998.Comment
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Is this front page news in Calgary?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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According to today's WSJ, the losers include...
(1) Morgan Stanley, which held about $115 million in Amaranth
(2) Goldman Sachs, for an amount not yet determined
(3) San Diego County Employees Retirement Association, which held about $175 million in Amaranth
(4) Man Group (UK), for an amount not yet determined
(5) Credit Suisse, for an amount not yet determined
(6) Collins Stewart Tullett (UK), for an amount not yet determined
The list is bound to grow much longer.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Not the Calgary Sun. Hiring new firefighters the big headline and no mention of this on front page (that I could see).Originally posted by DanS
Is this front page news in Calgary?"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark TwainComment
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One of my friends knows the guy (attended his wedding before he was a rich bigwig).
I guess the actual individual is still golden. Earn a billion and get millions. Lose 5 billion and what . . . you don't get a bonus?
I'm assuming they don't offer any money back.
Its no shock that someone might be chasing the big score. Luck out with a hurricane and you are a rich man. Get it wrong and you probably just get fired.You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto LuongoComment
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Only 3 degrees from the infamous via Poly, folks!
Now if only randomturn would post, we might be able to tighten it up to 2 degrees.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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The question is
Who made money off of this?“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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1. Anyone who uses natural gas;
2. Whoever is short natural gas future.Comment
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Re: The question is
The guy who gambled against him.Originally posted by pchang
Who made money off of this?(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."Comment
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Other losers...
(7) Bank of New York (Ivy) for an amount not yet determined
(8) Pennsylvania state pension fund has exposure of $60 million
(9) New Jersey state pension fund has exposure of $25 million
(10) 3M's pension fund for an amount not yet determined
(11) Abria Alternative Investments for an amount not yet determined
(12) Caisse de depot et placement du Quebec (i.e., Quebec's pension fund) invested $77 millionLast edited by DanS; September 21, 2006, 14:37.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Re: The question is
It might be a really interesting list. Perhaps even many companies will be both winners and losers. Could get ugly if there are companies that won while trading on the house's money, but lost while trading on the fund's money.Originally posted by pchang
Who made money off of this?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Uh…Make that $6billion lost and counting….
Amaranth losses swell
TAVIA GRANT
Globe and Mail Update
Amaranth Advisors LLC has increased the estimate of its losses to about $6-billion (U.S.) since the start of the month, the hedge fund said late Wednesday, making it one of the largest hedge-fund losses in history.
The losses come amid speculation Citigroup Inc. is in talks to buy a stake in Amaranth, Dow Jones reported Thursday, citing people familiar with the matter. Citigroup didn't immediately return calls for comment.
The Greenwich, Conn.-based company, which placed the wrong bets on the direction of natural-gas prices, believes the value of its funds have dropped 65 per cent so far this month, putting its year-to-date losses at 55 per cent, Amaranth said in a note to investors late yesterday. That pegs its losses this week alone at $1.4-billion, according to Bloomberg.
Estimates for the size of Amaranth's losses had been previously seen at $4.6-billion. If the revised estimate is correct, the losses would surpass those of Long-Term Capital Management LP in 1998, which saw $5.75-billion evaporate on an inflation-adjusted basis.
The company plans a conference call on Friday.
“Amaranth is determined to earn back its investors' trust, and one step towards that end is to share as much information as we reasonably can,” said the company's chief executive Nick Maounis in the note.
Amaranth won't likely be the last hedge fund caught on the wrong side of an energy bet. More than $20-billion has flowed into energy and commodity funds this year, according to Bloomberg data. Much of that is new speculative money. Peter Fusaro, co-founder of New York-based Energy Hedge Fund Center, said he now tracks 585 energy hedge funds, a number that's more than tripled in the past two years.
Excacerbating the situation is natural gas prices which continue to fall, shedding more than 2 per cent to a two-year low Thursday.
Mr. Maounis implied that his company wants to continue doing business. “We are now focused on communicating with our investors and defining the future of our business,” he said.
The month-to-date losses mean Amaranth's assets have fallen from about $9-billion at the beginning of the month to just over $3 billion.
Yesterday, Amaranth said it had transferred its energy portfolio to a third party. There were reports that Citadel Investment Group LLC and JPMorgan Chase & Co. have taken over some of Amaranth's energy trades.
Amaranth said it's “eliminated the prospect” of further big losses and continues to meet all margin calls.
“Our major financial counterparties have confirmed that they are now comfortable with our portfolio and overall liquidity position,” Mr. Maounis said.
It's uncertain how many Canadian institutional investors have exposure to Amaranth. Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, for one, had $77.3-million invested in the hedge fund as of Dec. 31, according to the pension fund's annual report. A spokesman for the pension fund yesterday declined to say whether it still held the investment.
Canada Pension Plan said yesterday it doesn't have any holdings in the company.
Citigroup is reportedly in talks to buy a stake in the hedge fund. The talks with Amaranth have involved Dean Barr, the head of the hedge fund group in Citigroup's alternative investments division, Dow Jones said, citing an unnamed source.
With files from reporter Paul Waldie and the Associated Press.Comment
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A billion here, a billion there...I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Pretty soon, you will be able to buy them for $1 (like Barings).“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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