Canadians in Afghanistan six times more likely to die than Americans in Iraq

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Tingkai

When American pilots have been responsible for 25% of Canadian deaths, then there is a problem.

There is a problem for sure. Since the American planes, tanks, and artillery make up the majority of the high powered NATO weapons in theater it is likely almost any friendly fire incident will involve Americans but there just isn't any way to explain the friendly fire events away. That's just pilots totally ****ing up and not following the proper NATO procedures.

I don't know this but I suspect that it involves pilots who want to drop bombs from 50k feet without going lower to check out what exactly is going on down there. The pilots thus keep themselves safer but the problem is they end up dropping bombs on targets which they have not properly identified or which they have misidentified. The logical solution would be to have more spotters on the ground who can varify targets for the planes or for the pilots to fly lower but neither of those are likely to occur for a mixture of political reasons (fear of to many planes being shot down or to many troops on the ground will equal more casualties which politicians will have to take the heat on) and practical reasons (having $30 billion airplanes shot down and is just so expensive).

Something needs to change though. I remember reading about some fairly expensive and sophisticated electronic identification systems for NATO personnel but the grunts ended up turning most of those off because they were afraid the enemy could triangulate their positions off of the transmitions. The Us introduced some really cool frequency hoping GPS systems which had continually updated maps of where EVERYONE who had one was located in real time, but, those are expensive and it is doubtful every vehicle in every armed force in NATO could get one of those any time soon. I think that is the long term solution but the extreme expense means it won't be in place for every NATO unit for another 20 years or more.

[Tingkai]

You're right about the pilot in the first incident disobeying almost every proceedure, but the use of uppers may have played a role in that incident and the air force refused to address that issue.

And yeah, the 3c thing is a two-way street. Canadian governments have either (under the Liberals) underfunded the miltiary or spent money on the wrong things (Under the Conservatives with billions being allocated to useless things like Arctic patrols when the troops need more 3c equipment).

Also a problem that will always exist is that no country will ever allow seamless 3c with another country because your friend today maybe your enemy tomorrow.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dis
Which begs the question.

When will it all end?

Can there be a resolution to Afghanistan? I don't see it.

The final solution will have to be a political one. Bush and Blair ****ed up by not doing a massive reconstruction (or more honestly just plain construction since many of these places were always mideval) plan right after the intial invasion. That was a mistake they repeated in Iraq.

Psyops and just old fashioned politicing is what will have to persuade the Afghan people that they're better off if the war ends and the economy can start really growing again. That will be hard since there are so many ignorant and backwards people in Afghanistan who really do want continued warfare since they see it as a religious obligation needed to get into heaven.

The only way a successful conclusion can be reached is through something like the Turkish solution to the 30 year long Kurdish rebellion. A combination of massive investment to creat jobs and real living standard improvements (thus showing the current regime can deliver the goods) and brutal military action to kill everyone who resists (thus showing fighting the government doesn't pay).

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Ah, no. The operation involved massive firefights on the ground. Our troops were the ones inflicting heavy damage, thanks to their training.

And you overlooked the major problem with 3c.



No. When the decision was made to put the Forces in the southern region, we did not know that the Taliban would launch a major offensive in the region this summer. We knew it was an active region, but no one on the NATO side suspected that it would be this intense. This is why NATO is now moving more troops into the region.

We must be reading different information.

[techumseh]

Asher and Oerdin: although you are two of my favorite people, would you please take your debate on bitumen somewhere else? Thank you.

Krazyhorse: the NDP is looking good, as the only party taking a principled stand against the US-led war of aggression. Despite the constant pro-war propaganda in the part of the Tories and the media, a majority of the Canadian public opposes the war. As casualties continue to mount, and the futility of the mission becomes more apparent, the NDP will gain support amoung Canadians. I predict the Harper government will eventually fall over this issue, and they will lose the subsequent election.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I'm glad most Canadians are nothing like Tingkai.

You're dead wrong. You don't know us at all. Tingkai is pretty typical. Don't confuse the current neo-cons in Ottawa with mainstream Canadians. We hate Bush. We like Clinton. Even Castro is pretty popular. Asher is an anomoly.

[Drake Tungsten]

And working for an American newspaper, I know that most Americans are a lot more intelligent than Drake.

Well that sure explains a lot about the decline of the American newspaper industry...

You're dead wrong. You don't know us at all. Tingkai is pretty typical.

I disagree. I've had plenty of Canadian friends and not one of them was a moron.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I disagree. I've had plenty of Canadian friends and not one of them was a moron.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Largely passive Iraq.

FLUBBER!

Sorry not to pay more attention to the asher-slow snitfit but I was at the hospital with my 5 day old daughter (all is well now).

But please DO continue

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Dis
Canada should withdraw if they are just going to be a bunch of whiners. What do they care about the war on terrorism? No one is going to freeze their balls off just to bomb a bunch of drunk hockey player drinking crappy Molson Ice.

An American ragging on a Canadian about BEER?? Thats just silly. Have you tasted the 10 most popular American beers?

Like the US, Canada's best beers come from the microbreweries but even then too much of the US isn't that great

[Kuciwalker]

I disagree. I've had plenty of Canadian friends and not one of them was a moron.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by techumseh


You're dead wrong. You don't know us at all. Tingkai is pretty typical. Don't confuse the current neo-cons in Ottawa with mainstream Canadians. We hate Bush. We like Clinton. Even Castro is pretty popular. Asher is an anomoly.

I dont know these typical canadians you talk about, and I'm a french-canadians ...

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Any good uni geology program includes course work on petroleum geology and most also include optional courses on reservoir modeling and maturation. I took both so, while not specifically a petroleum geologist, I think I do have a better understanding of the subject then the average bear. Geologists are involved in all steps of the oil fields life from discovery to eventual shut down and a good geologist who is willing to travel can make a lot of money.

I'm not saying geologists don't have a role at all but both they and gophysicists have a lesser role in oilsands development than more conventional plays. When you have miles and miles of thick tarry sand of pretty consistent depth and consistency, thats very different than trying to assess something like a shallow gas play in the early cretaceous.

Oil sands are mainly an engineer's game. Geologists are most important in the new exploration plays

/Industry lawyer for 10 years

[Asher]

Oerdin likely won't discuss this anymore.

He took an option 10 years ago on traditional oil reserves and thinks it applies here.

[Wezil]

I'm just glad the only people we kill are 'Taliban'. It would be tragic if we were actually fighting Afghanis.

/sarcasm