Christians Indoctrinate Children, Too

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by germanos


And who was it that said "kill them all and let God sort it out in the end"?

I did. You got a problem with me?

[Berzerker]

A Martyr traditionally isn't one who goes and causes lots of pain and suffering to others at their death.

A martyr traditionally is one who refuses to change their beleifs.. even at the cost of their life.

Yup, many Christians were martyred for refusing to pay homage to Rome's gods. Gotta respect the courage, but maybe I'm not enlightened enough to respect the rationality - although Christianity did spread in part because Romans saw the bravery of these people and many converted. I just dont see Jesus caring if a Christian mouths some Roman pledge of allegiance at the point of a sword. But he did speak against taking oaths or pledges, so I see where it comes from. Funny how so many Christians want children to recite the pledge, they've become the Romans without the swords.

[Heresson]

You want to know who's a martyr? I think Leonelia, the italian nun that was killed by muslim gunmen, was a martyr. She was killed for her faith.

Originally posted by germanos


I think that's a bit narrow definition. Christianity certainly has it's martyrs who died in the armed struggle for God, King and Country.
Think the crusades: one of the big rewards was the promise that those participating would be absolved of their sins.

Read up on the old testament. God isn't exactly Mister Niceguy. Whole cities get whiped away taking children, women and the elder with them without a qualm.

And who was it that said "kill them all and let God sort it out in the end"?

Islam is not inheritly more evil then christianity.

You're commiting one big, common mistake. It's not important what a religion was doing in its history. The importent thing is what is inherent, what are the very basics, and the most basics examples of lifes for this religion or that.
Jesus was a peaceful guy who told that we should let ourselves be beaten and humiliated, and bless the ones who are doing it. He was killed for his beliefs.
Muhammad was, exceptional and in some points humanitarian as he was, a leader of an agressive state, leading a war after a war and sentencing people to death occasionally.
The roots of christianity is being persecuted and peaceful climbing towards acceptance and popularity despite brutal attacks.
Islam way, except for brief Meccan period, is conquest and domination.
I think that's a basic difference
Of course, there's Old Testament, but is something of secondary importance to the core of x-ty.
Islan definitely IS more agressive religion than Christianity. How can muslims become pacifist lefties, like contemporary popes and majority of christians, if the one they should love more than their families and themselves spent most of his prophet years fighting wars? How can they ban capital punishment for f.e. apostasy, if it was the Seal of the Prophets who ordered it to be done?
Christianity can always return to it's "fuzzy and warm" early period. Islam can not. It was (almost) borned as a ruling religion, and as a state. And it's the start that counts mostly.
Utinam falsus vates sim, for it's a horrible thought, but I see no sollution but hypocrisy or a thought, that Muhammad's actions were part of his times, and shouldn't be applied to the times we are living in. This notion, however, is completely allien and hostile towards entire muslim legislation tradition.

[Robert]

The difference between Islamitic martyrs and christian martyrs lies in it's founders.
- Jesus died on the cross for others
- Muhammed used war and violence to convert others

That's the core difference of both religions and that's why the first one is peacefull in it's core (though oftenly used for violence) while the other is violent in it's core (though fortunately oftenly used peacefully)

That's why a christian martyr is someone who is killed by others because of his faith, like Jesus.
A islamtic martyr is someone who dies fighting for it's faith, like Muhammed (he didn't die fighting, he killed a lot of people)

[Arrian]

If you agree with it, it's education. If you disagree, it's indoctrination.

At least that's how it seems to generally work with people.

-Arrian