President Bush's Crusade Against Justice Continues..

[Chemical Ollie]

What Vel said Well said!

Someone need to stuff a cigar into a bush!

[Elok]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
What Vel said Well said!

Someone need to stuff a cigar into a bush!

??? I don't think Mr. Clinton's into men...

[Chemical Ollie]

No, Clinton stuffed a cigar into a bush

[Elok]

Oh. Duh. Sorry, the joke was kind of mixed...

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Our laws should be written to reflect the ideal, and those who torture should be held accountable (as you yourself said you'd gladly do...present yourself to the courts after the fact).

As far as I can tell, we are on the same page.

-=Vel=-

Good arguing with you, sir. I raise my glass to you.

[Velociryx]

And you!

-=Vel=-

[SpencerH]

So is it that no one (else) actually knows the political background to the thread or did no one want to admit to being a 'terrorist-enabler'?

[Whoha]

We lose the moral high ground by saying that if you don't respect our rights, we will steamroll yours?
I don't see it.

Oh and in the nuke scenario, I doubt that the nefarious torture implements of loud music and cold rooms would extract the needed information

[Victor Galis]

Lol... have to love the BBC's headlines:

Bush fights rebels over tribunals

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Having said that, can you also lament the loss of lives due to this very point?

Not YOU. People. A decision has to be made on a position. People can't say "be ethical and moral", without realizing that it comes with a price.
Understand what I'm trying to say?

We have not gotten crap out of the grunts we've tortured, so I'm not sure what benefit we got.

If you want to make a cost/benefit argument, its a pretty poor one.

[korn469]

Enemy combatants are not US citizens, so they don't qualify for protection under the Constitution of the United States. However, I believe that where ever possible we should try to extend the ideas enshrined in the Constitution to all people. One of the rationales for the war in Iraq was to export democracy to other nations. If that is the case then logically the United States should always try to act like a democracy, and whenever possible uphold the principles of a democracy. Two amendments in particular go against the idea behind President Bush's policies.

Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by korn469
Two amendments in particular go against the idea behind President Bush's policies.

We'll ship them to your house when they post bail.

[korn469]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We'll ship them to your house when they post bail.

the more the merrier

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Having said that, can you also lament the loss of lives due to this very point?

Not YOU. People. A decision has to be made on a position. People can't say "be ethical and moral", without realizing that it comes with a price.
Understand what I'm trying to say?

You know Sloww, if you could point to any lives actually saved through the government violating the law, you might have a leg to stand on, but you can't, so you don't.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by korn469
Enemy combatants are not US citizens, so they don't qualify for protection under the Constitution of the United States

Untrue. They don't qualify for the same protections.