President Bush's Crusade Against Justice Continues..

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Having said that, can you also lament the loss of lives due to this very point?

Not YOU. People. A decision has to be made on a position. People can't say "be ethical and moral", without realizing that it comes with a price.
Understand what I'm trying to say?

Of course it comes with a price, and that price is something we should pay. Because we are not barbarians and we believe in a set of values that says humans have rights. When we violate our values because our enemies don't recognize them then we fall into the abyss and become less and less distinguishable from those we fight.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. "
- Friedrich Nietzsche

[Jon Miller]

Hitler did a lot to make Aryan germans have a better life, more wealth, and safety from other groups..

He was an evil bastard though. Americans use to rebel against his type.. not accept his arguments. And Bush has even done less then Hitler (relatively) for people of his nation. I guess it is because Hitler represented 'normal' germanic Aryans.. while Bush only represents the wealthy oil-military-industrial complex.

Jon Miller

[MrFun]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Too late. You've already tortured prisoners.

But please remember the Americans such as Imran and myself who are ashamed of our president's barbarism.

[Jon Miller]

We are going against the principles laid out in our constitution, in our bill of rights, and in our declaration of independence.

If I didn't think he likely that there would be a regime change in America by 2008, I would quit this nation.

JM

[PLATO]

While i agree with the idea of having the moral high ground...it occurs to me to ask what price you would be willing to really pay for it.

Would 100,000 deaths that could be avoided be to high? 1 million? The death of a close relative? The survival of the country?

Sure...those are probably ludicrous examples, but really...when does the price become to high...or does it ever?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by PLATO
While i agree with the idea of having the moral high ground...it occurs to me to ask what price you would be willing to really pay for it.

Would 100,000 deaths that could be avoided be to high? 1 million? The death of a close relative? The survival of the country?

Sure...those are probably ludicrous examples, but really...when does the price become to high...or does it ever?

I'm not sure the price can ever be too high. Think about it; if we degenerate to the same level of barbarism as others when it comes to conflicts in other countries, how much longer can we preserve the freedom and constitutional law that we treasure in our own country?

[Guynemer]

I can not believe this press conference... this guy is suck a ****ing dick!

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by PLATO
While i agree with the idea of having the moral high ground...it occurs to me to ask what price you would be willing to really pay for it.

Would 100,000 deaths that could be avoided be to high?

No, it wouldn't be too high.

1 million?

No, it wouldn't be too high.

The death of a close relative?

No, it wouldn't be too high.

The survival of the country?

No, it wouldn't be too high.

Sure...those are probably ludicrous examples, but really...when does the price become to high...or does it ever?

Never, not even of my own death. Most Christians consider that the Jewish religious authority at the time of Christ was wrong in his death sentence.

We are doing the same thing now.. but at a greater scale.

Jon Miller

[PLATO]

Interesting...

I am not so sure that I am as secure in my moral high ground.

If I had to decide whether to trade the life of my son or torture terrorist, then I think the terrorist would be in for a bad day.

I certainly can't conceive of trading a million innocent lives to protect a terrorist from torture, but hey...that's just me.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion...and I happen to agree that we must protect the freedoms that we have fought so hard over the years to gain...I just don't feel that it comes at any price.

Mark me down for the slippery slope I guess...

Still, don't get me wrong...I seriously disagree with the premise of this bill.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Of course it comes with a price, and that price is something we should pay. Because we are not barbarians and we believe in a set of values that says humans have rights. When we violate our values because our enemies don't recognize them then we fall into the abyss and become less and less distinguishable from those we fight.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. "
- Friedrich Nietzsche

I agree, but listen what I'm saying happens around you in the opinions that some people express.
A perfect world doesn't exist. A choice has to be made.

[Lord Avalon]

Bush is the Law!

If you're not with him, you're with the terrorists!

[SlowwHand]

It's easy to understand his position, really. Naturally we want to minimize our lossess, but at what cost to our moral fiber?

[Jon Miller]

John 11:49-51 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

49Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! 50You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."

51He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,

JM

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't like how Bush is so bullheaded. Right or wrong - it's either his way or the highway.

[atawa]

Your country seems to slowly slide towards banana-rapublicism