Are hollowpoints illegal?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Donegeal


Sorry, but you are wrong. A gun is considered deadly force, not a disabling force. We are not trained to wound.

OTOH, not using HP in war is actually beneficial in war. Take the M-16 design for instance. The M-16 is not designed to kill, but to wound (thus the small calibur of bullet). The thought of this is that a wounded soldier takes 3 enemy combatants out of the fight. One is the wounded soldier and the two that it takes to carry him off the battlefield. The small calibur passing through someone to hit a second target is something that I never thought about and is another way that the M-16 is an effective weapon in war.

Thanks Donegal, I am kinda wiped out on Demerol so it is very hard to concentrate on a single thought or even to focus on typing with one had, I had surgery on Thursday and me and Demerol are "chillin".

I missed it first go around about the "disable", but yes thats a myth like firing a warning shot.

Like back in my day, I carried a .38 revolver Model 10 "K" Frame (Combat frame). I believe it was called a Trooper model. Anyhoo, in 1979 the State of Maine allowed 3 weapons to chose from for lawmen to carry as firearms, a .32, .38 or .45. It was a bit later that they started allowing .357's.

The round I carried basically "ramped up" my stopping power from a .38 to what would be equivalent to a .357 leadball. I also carried a very sweet weapon to help pursuade folks to cooperate, a 6 cell Kel Lite, Bigger head than the Mag Lites.

I reckon ya cant use them anymore, though

[SlowwHand]

Except that the M16 produces a tumbling type of trajectory. It's not a sniper weapon, but in a fire fight a shoulder hit may take off an arm.

[KrazyHorse]

In addition to limiting downrange civilian danger, hollow points also theoretically increase the "stopping power" of a round. Police want the first shot to drop the suspect as many times as possible. It doesn't matter as much in a battlefield situation whether your target takes 2 seconds or 30 seconds to fall down. In law enforcement, it matters greatly (officers and civilians are very often in the direct line of fire of the suspect; soldiers fire from cover).

[Donegeal]

Yeah... maybe that's why I never though about the "exit strategy".

[KrazyHorse]

By the way, Black Talons are not illegal either. They were pulled by Winchester (IIRC) not by legal requirement.

[DRoseDARs]

Hollowpoints per Wikipedia:

Legality

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in warfare of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body. This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of The Declaration of St Petersburg in 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams, and weapons designed to aggravate injured soldiers or make their death inevitable. Despite the ban on military use, hollow point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition, due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation. In many jurisdictions, it is illegal to hunt game with ammunition that does not expand, and some target ranges also forbid full metal jacket ammunition.

[Whaleboy]

Originally posted by Hueij
You guys are scary :

[chequita guevara]

Just keep that in mind, Whaleboy, next time you come looking for a fight.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by BlackCat


That is one ludicrous theory. What if the shot doesn't hit the villain? Oups, sorry, didn't intent to kill the innocent bystander, but the bad guy is to blame - he ducked just as I fired.

Police don't typically engage at long ranges with sidearms - and if you're at any normal tactical range and can duck fast enough to avoid being hit by a 990 fps round fired at you, then the police are likely to have bigger problems than missing. Hollow points start to break up on impact with the first object they hit (unless it's a piece of paper), so their downrange damage potential and lethality is far less than with an FMJ or even soft lead round.

Police rounds also tend to be somewhat lighter powder loads to limit downrange damage potential.
[/QUOTE]

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, I think there was some controversy over the Metropolitan Police using these rounds. Compared to the alternative, it sounds fairly common sense - even if they are a little squeamish...

[Dis]

are those British police using guns now?

[Joseph]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
hollow points are illegal, as are teflon coated bullets.

Not in CA.