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Thatcher and Attlee Best 20th Century PMs

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  • Thatcher and Attlee Best 20th Century PMs

    from the bbc

    Thatcher and Attlee top PM list

    Margaret Thatcher and Clement Attlee have been ranked as the greatest prime ministers of the 20th century by a historian in BBC History Magazine.
    Giving the leaders points from zero to five, Francis Beckett put Tony Blair mid-table with three, saying his Iraq war policy affected his standing.

    The list was based on how well the leaders implemented their policies - not on the policies themselves.

    Lady Thatcher "took one sort of society, and turned it into another".

    Ruling from 1979 to 1990, her victory over the miners was highlighted as a key moment by Mr Beckett.

    "Today few people under 40 remember a time when trade unions were a real force in the land, when the public sector controlled large swathes of the economy, when local councils controlled education and other local services, when benefits were considered rights of citizenship," he said, giving her five marks.

    "The defeat and destruction of the once-powerful National Union of Mineworkers was a key moment in the history of the last half decade."

    Attlee, who also scored five, was the Labour Party leader for 20 years, and presided over the 1945-51 Labour government.

    This was the most significant reforming administration of 20th-century Britain, the regime that introduced the National Health Service, nationalised one-fifth of the British economy, and granted independence to India.

    Mr Blair, who scored three points, had made a lot of progress up until the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Mr Beckett concluded.

    "The private sector has now been brought even into the running of schools and hospitals and, since the Conservatives agree with it, this will probably be a relatively permanent change."

    But he added: "The unpopularity of the Iraq War, and the fact that the reasons given afterwards for going to war were not those given at the time, have undermined Blair's ability to implement his vision, probably permanently."

    Sir Winston Churchill received four points, as did Edward Heath and Harold Macmillan.

    Churchill was voted the greatest Briton of all time in a 2002 nationwide poll, attracting more than one million votes.

    And in a recent poll of 1,000 for Doctor Who Adventures magazine, he was the historical figure people would most like to travel back in time to meet.

    Of the 20 prime ministers in the list, Neville Chamberlain and Sir Anthony Eden both scored zero - in Chamberlain's case because he "utterly failed in his principal objective of averting war".
    interesting stuff.
    "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

    "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

  • #2
    Considering the criteria, I'd broadly agree. However I take issue with Chamberlain being marked so far down because he failed to avert war, when his failing was possibly appeasing too much.

    Attlee
    Smile
    For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
    But he would think of something

    "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

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    • #3
      I know this is going to come as a huge shock to Mobius.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        I'm surprised (regardless of the results) that so much credence has been given to one person's musings.

        I don't think it is difficult to argue (however much you might disagree with what they did) that Thatcher and Attlee (along with Churchill) had the greatest impact on the country.

        Not entirely sure what Edward Heath did do deserve four stars, though - he abandoned the manifesto he was elected on almost immediately, and his term ended when he went to the country to ask "who governs?" and they said "not you!"...
        Visit the Vote UK Discussion Forum!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SlowwHand
          I know this is going to come as a huge shock to Mobius.
          What, that people don't know what they're talking about? I only have to come here to witness that anytime I want...
          Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Drogue
            Considering the criteria, I'd broadly agree. However I take issue with Chamberlain being marked so far down because he failed to avert war, when his failing was possibly appeasing too much.

            Attlee
            I doubt anyone could have averted war... Adolf was rather adamant at picking a fight. Mind you, he didn't want to fight the brits. Some sort of semi-aryans, IIRC.
            I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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            • #7
              by a historian


              Right. It's official then.

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              • #8
                I think Lloyd George should have been a bit higher and if you included achievments besides being prime minister he could have been right up there.
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                • #9
                  I agree about Lloyd George, but as you say, only if you include his achievements when he wasn't PM.

                  I doubt anyone could have averted war... Adolf was rather adamant at picking a fight. Mind you, he didn't want to fight the brits. Some sort of semi-aryans, IIRC.
                  Exactly my point. However I suppose his whole policy was appeasement, and so he did fail in that.
                  Smile
                  For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
                  But he would think of something

                  "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Am I reading this right? Is this pillock rating MacMillan and Heath higher than Asquith?
                    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                    • #11
                      Some would argue Chamberlin's policy was to avoid war until 1941 when the army would have proper armoured divisions and tactical bombers. Of course he failed this aswell but Chamberlin was not quite as naive about Hitler as some make out.

                      If halifax had become PM then we would have been in trouble
                      Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                      Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                      • #12
                        Here's the full list-

                        5 Margaret Thatcher 1979-90

                        5 Clement Attlee 1945-51

                        4 Edward Heath 1970-4

                        4 Winston Churchill 1940-5, 1951-5

                        4 Harold Macmillan 1957-63

                        4 Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman 1905-8

                        3 Lord Salisbury 1885-92, 1895-1902

                        3 Herbert Asquith 1908-16

                        3 David Lloyd George 1916-22

                        3 Stanley Baldwin 1923, 1924-9, 1935-7

                        3 Harold Wilson 1964-70, 1974-6

                        3 Tony Blair 1997-

                        2 James Callaghan 1976-9

                        2 Arthur Balfour 1902-5

                        1 Andrew Bonar Law 1922-3

                        1 Ramsay MacDonald

                        1924, 1929-35

                        1 Sir Alec Douglas-Home 1963-4

                        1 John Major 1990-7

                        0 Anthony Eden 1955-7

                        0 Neville Chamberlain 1937-40


                        The man's an idiot. He ranks Lord Salisbury (a senile and ridiculous reactionary throwback, as well as a lifelong opponent of democracy) the same as Asquith. He also rates Major below the ludicrous Balfour (who only got the job through nepotism, never won an election and split the party).

                        And what the hell did Campbell-Bannerman do to get 4?
                        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                        • #13
                          Can't see how Callaghan is rated higher than Major either. On a par really except Major won his election and Callaghan didn't.
                          Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                          Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                          • #14
                            Here's my rating-

                            5 Clement Attlee
                            5 Herbert Asquith
                            4 Winston Churchill (would have had a 5, if it weren't for his poor showing in the 1950's)
                            4- Stanley Baldwin
                            4- David Lloyd George
                            3- Harold Wilson
                            3- Tony Blair
                            3- Edward Heath
                            3- Harold MacMillan
                            3- Campbell-Bannerman
                            2- Margaret Thatcher (would have got a 3, were it not for the fact that her legacy has proved so destructive to her party)
                            2- Ramsay MacDonald
                            2- Lord Salisbury
                            2- Lord Home
                            2- Andrew Bonar Law (given the benefit of the doubt over his short tenure
                            2- Anthony Eden
                            2- John Major
                            2- Nevill Chamberlain
                            1- Arthur Balfour
                            1- James Callaghan
                            The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                            • #15
                              The list was based on how well the leaders implemented their policies - not on the policies themselves.
                              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

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