The Middle East Continues...

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Jaakko

Originally posted by Jaakko
Evacuate? Israel "evacuating" Lebanese civilians? Try more like "get the **** out of town or we'll kill you too". Expand that to your pet concept of depopulation, and it's functionally indistinguishable from ethnic cleansing.

Yes, even if you allow any survivors to return once you've killed the rest.

The situation is NOT Israel VS Lebanon because Lebanon isn't 100% muslim and it's by far not 100% "we want to kill jews". The motive of Israel in this assault has NOT been to invade Lebanon but to kill as many Hezbollah terrorists as they can. Hezbollah is NOT a Lebanese group but an originally Iranian-funded Syrian terrorist organisation. Lebanon was a peaceful and relatively wealthy multiculturalist state in the late 1970s before Israel occupied the country. It had and has a considerable Christian population.

Learn to see through the state-upkept "Israel is evil and kills kids for fun, here's a video clip of a muslim guy shouting in front of a collapsed building to prove our words" -facade of bull**** and realize that Yleisradio (Finnish public broadcasting company) has been led by politically selected guys since the early 1970s.

[Jaakko]

Re: Jaakko

Originally posted by VJ

The situation is NOT Israel VS Lebanon because Lebanon isn't 100% muslim and it's by far not 100% "we want to kill jews". The motive of Israel in this assault has NOT been to invade Lebanon but to kill as many Hezbollah terrorists as they can. Lebanon was a peaceful and relatively wealthy multiculturalist state in the late 1970s before Israel occupied the country. It had and has a considerable Christian population.

Learn to see through the state-upkept "Israel is evil and kills kids for fun, here's a video clip of a muslim guy shouting in front of a collapsed building to prove our words" -facade of bull**** and realize that Yleisradio (Finnish public broadcasting company) has been led by politically selected guys since the early 1970s.

You should make arguments that are relevant to the point at hand.

The YLE paranoia is amusing though, remember to wear your tinfoil hat when watching the news!

[RGBVideo]

the arguments are relevant to your post

your post is a naïve rant against Israel with a child-like faith to default left-wing agitprop which claims that Israel kills kids for fun

reality check

Time to grow up and think rationally, kid. You think anyone wants to see dead children in the area? You think Israel assaulted because it wants to conquer Lebanon?

think

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by VJ
the arguments are relevant to your post

your post is a naïve rant against Israel with a child-like faith to default left-wing agitprop which claims that Israel kills kids for fun

reality check

Time to grow up and think rationally, kid. You think anyone wants to see dead children in the area? You think Israel assaulted because it wants to conquer Lebanon?

think

Damn dude, I don't know where you get all that ****. I was replying to Sik's ambitions of ethnic cleansing, not making a manifesto.

[RGBVideo]

also, my first paragraph was written because apparently, you seem to believe that the conflict was all about boxing

That's right, boxing: Israel against Lebanon, both hate each others guts, both fighting to death, the whole world watching -- how dramatic. And everyone gets to select their side for which to cheer for.

that belief is an indication of ignorance when it comes to the history of the region

read about the details of the lebanese civil war if you don't want to get fooled by propaganda in the future, mmkay?

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by VJ
also, my first paragraph was written because apparently, you seem to believe that the conflict was all about boxing

That's right, boxing: Israel against Lebanon, both hate each others guts, both fighting to death, the whole world watching -- how dramatic. And everyone gets to select their side for which to cheer for.

that belief is an indication of ignorance when it comes to the history of the region

read about the details of the lebanese civil war if you don't want to get fooled by propaganda in the future, mmkay?

Boxing? Dubya Tee Eff? Are you channeling Giancarlo or something?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


If Hezbollah's goal had been to kill as many civilians as possible, I expect the death toll in Israel would have been considerably greater. They fired their rockets all around Northern Israel, mostly into farming areas. They could have sent everything screaming towards Haifa.

Er, no, most of their rockets had too short a range to reach Haifa. Also, due to the necessity to avoid having all their launchers hit in the Israeli bombing campaign (and later the ground campaign) they had to spread their launch sites around S Lebanon, further limiting their targeting options.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Jaakko
Evacuate? Israel "evacuating" Lebanese civilians? Try more like "get the **** out of town or we'll kill you too". Expand that to your pet concept of depopulation, and it's functionally indistinguishable from ethnic cleansing.

Yes, even if you allow any survivors to return once you've killed the rest.

I guess what I'm trying to tell you that it's just sad to see when ignorance is being concealed by insults.

[muxec]

Depopulation
Humanism

[Spiffor]

Re: Jaakko

Originally posted by VJ
Hezbollah is NOT a Lebanese group

Yes it is. It has become one.

[RGBVideo]

Yeah, you're right. I am very sorry because I wrote my reply too hastily and didn't read it through before hitting "post reply".

the point I was trying to make (seemingly unsuccesfully) was that it wasn't founded in Lebanon by Lebanese people, so it's not some-sort of a damned spontaniously formed people's army which is only defending civilians of Lebanon which the bloodthirsty Israelis are wanting to kill

Israel assaulted against Hezbollah, not against Lebanon. This was the Problem within Jaakko's rant.

[Spiffor]

Depends how you define "assault".

If you define it accordingg to the assaulter's intended victim, then yes, Israel only intended to hurt Hezbollah, not the Lebanese in general.
If you define it according to the assaulter's actual victims, then Israel assaulted Lebanon

BTW, this subtlety is the crux of the misunderstanding between those who shrug off colateral damage, and those who are outraged by it.

[RGBVideo]

Spiffor

Originally posted by Spiffor
Depends how you define "assault".

If you define it accordingg to the assaulter's intended victim, then yes, Israel only intended to hurt Hezbollah, not the Lebanese in general.
If you define it according to the assaulter's actual victims, then Israel assaulted Lebanon

BTW, this subtlety is the crux of the misunderstanding between those who shrug off colateral damage, and those who are outraged by it.

I agree 100%, and I think this particular assault was a poorly planned mistake.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Depends how you define "assault".

If you define it accordingg to the assaulter's intended victim, then yes, Israel only intended to hurt Hezbollah, not the Lebanese in general.
If you define it according to the assaulter's actual victims, then Israel assaulted Lebanon

BTW, this subtlety is the crux of the misunderstanding between those who shrug off colateral damage, and those who are outraged by it.

I wouldnt say that many on "my side" of the debate "shrug off" collateral damage. I dont. I am saddened by it, and support attempts to minimize it. However I recognize that, at this time, its not possible to engage in war without deaths to civilians, ESPECIALLY when one side deliberately locates its forces in order to force the other side to inflict damage on civilians.


Spiff - suppose Israel were to withdraw from 100% of the West Bank. Suppose that, after that happened, the Pal state had as much difficulty controlling its territory as the Lebanese state does. Suppose that an extremist group, not controlled by the Pal state, started firing rockets at Israel - only this time, cause of the geography, theyd be hitting Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and doing far more damage. Suppose that Israel responded with a similar attack - I presume you would not be supporting Israel, but would be expressing your outrage about the collateral damage Israel was inflicting.

My sense is that the Israeli public has drawn that conclusion about what it can expect from the international community, and that is one of the reasons that since the Lebanon war support for a withdrawl from the West Bank has plummeted.

[Sirotnikov]

*siro rubs his hands with joy*

VJ successfully assimilated.

*smiles and nods*

The Zionist goal will prevail!!!

*breaks out in evil laughter*