The Middle East Continues...

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Not true.

Nasrallah is despised in non-shiite communities, in and out of lebanon.

A recent poll of Hamas supporters showed that most agree that "our enemy's enemy is our friend" but they still hate Hezbullah's guts.

So you go to an extremist Sunni site to get the skinny on the popularity of Hizbullah?

I base my statement on polls conducted by the Lebanese media, on articles by EVERY non-Israeli news organization on the current popularity of HIzbullah. Sorry, but somehow multiple pulications world-wide are a more credible source than one hamas poll.

15,000 families - a good part of which were hosting rockets and arms in their basement and living room?

Hizbullah was said to have 12,000 rockets. YOu want to claim that Hizbullah store one rocket per household?

And that still leaves 3000 families!

Because there's a difference between achieving a short spanned success, and preserving it for 18 years....

NOt really. Getting rid of the all the weapons in an arae for a few days, until they start filtering back in is hardly a success, unless you decide to ignore

Obviously policing is very hard and quite impossible. However, a blitz attack to dispose of 80% of the weapons should be quite effective.

If you read the thread above, I alreayd stated that this campaign was a short term Israeli tactical victory because Hizbullah's military ability was degraded. Its a long term political failure thought, and that is what really matters.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Az
Of course it accpeted UNSCR242 because it was highly advantageous for him! after being defeated in a war he had caused by his sheer idiocy, he was ensured that the only thing he lost in the eyes of interntional law was his dignity - not nearly on par with the failure on the battlefield he had suffered. Even if he was planning to launch a full scale assault on Israel the very next year, why wouldn't he have accepted UNSCR242?

Last time I looked Nasser was out of power soon after the defeat. And as for why not accept it, his failure to accept it would not have ended the supplies of Soviet weapons, so politically what would be the advantage of accepting it?

As to "taking concrete steps", the Egyptians have expressed this as a goal numerously - We can interpret as posturing, but the right way to interpret it is wishful thinking. Due to being in certain disadvantages vis a vis Israel on many levels, any actions they took "just to defend themselves" or "as a part of a far away goal to destroy Israel" would've been the same. One can hope that it's meaningless posturing, and one can say that the threats, while empty, were empty only due to the sheer inability of Egypt to accomplish those goals.

I am sure the Egyptians, specially the general public in Egypt would not mind of a second if Israel vanished into thin air. That said, the Egyptians aren't stopping everything to achieve that one "goal", which is why peace was possible.

[Sirotnikov]

British kit 'in Hezbollah bunker'

Night-vision equipment believed to be British has been discovered in Hezbollah command bunkers in southern Lebanon, Israeli forces have said.

The Foreign Office is trying to ascertain the kit manufacturer and how it may have ended up in militant hands.

UK officials said early indications suggested it was not among a batch sold to Iran in 2003 under a special export licence, according to the Times.

The government only permits supply of such equipment for non-military use.

The Times said checks were being made to compare serial numbers on the equipment found by the Israelis with the ones legitimately exported to Iran for use against drug smugglers.

"The Israeli Defence Forces have confirmed to us that they have found some night vision equipment, which they believe to be British, in southern Lebanon," a Foreign Office spokesman said.

"We are seeking further details of the equipment to investigate whether it is British and, if so, by whom it was made and to whom it was sold."

[Sirotnikov]

So you go to an extremist Sunni site to get the skinny on the popularity of Hizbullah?

I base my statement on polls conducted by the Lebanese media, on articles by EVERY non-Israeli news organization on the current popularity of HIzbullah. Sorry, but somehow multiple pulications world-wide are a more credible source than one hamas poll.

I go to a site which polls the relevant target audience.

You go to various international news organizations who say stuff based on what? Have Reuters / AP / BBC performed a relevant poll in the arab streets during the last month? Not really.

I'm familiar with "pull out of my arse" assertions. They exist in western and Israeli news agencies as well.

I also rely on my kowledge of said target population - palestinians and lebanonians.

[Sirotnikov]

Hizbullah was said to have 12,000 rockets. YOu want to claim that Hizbullah store one rocket per household?

And that still leaves 3000 families!

Nice strawman.

I never claimed that all 15,000 households are implicated in terrorism. Obviously we probably had lots of false positives.

However, for most we had sufficient evidence to suspect.

As far as your joke about weapon stock quantities - beyond 12,000 rockets, you have hundreds of launchers, thousands of grenades, grenade launches, anti-tank grenades, rifles, sub-machine guns and what ever.

[Sirotnikov]

NOt really. Getting rid of the all the weapons in an arae for a few days, until they start filtering back in is hardly a success, unless you decide to ignore

Bull****.

Destroying a formidable weapons stock, that was built for 6 years would hardly take "few days" to rebuild. Not to mention, that this time Israel won't sit on its ass and let it be rebuilt so easily.



Attached: A graph demonstrating a possible israeli achievement

[Ecthy]

You should relax and come to the Berlin meet

[Eli]

Not to mention, that this time Israel won't sit on its ass and let it be rebuilt so easily.

Wanna bet?

[Sirotnikov]

Yes

[SlowwHand]

Diplomats: Iran refuses U.N. inspectors

3 minutes ago

VIENNA, Austria -
Iran has turned away U.N. inspectors wanting to examine its underground nuclear site in an apparent violation of the Nonproliferation Treaty, diplomats and U.N. officials said Monday.


The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the confidentiality of the information, told The Associated Press that Iran's unprecedented refusal to allow access to the facility at Natanz could seriously hamper international efforts to ensure that Tehran is not trying to make nuclear weapons.

The revelation came on the eve of Iran's self-imposed Aug. 22 deadline to respond to a Western incentives package for it to roll back its disputed nuclear program. The
United Nations has given Tehran until the end of August to suspend uranium enrichment.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

NOt really. Getting rid of the all the weapons in an arae for a few days, until they start filtering back in is hardly a success, unless you decide to ignore

Bull****.

Destroying a formidable weapons stock, that was built for 6 years would hardly take "few days" to rebuild. Not to mention, that this time Israel won't sit on its ass and let it be rebuilt so easily.



Attached: A graph demonstrating a possible israeli achievement

"Demonstrating" a "possible"...

Seriously, have you painted it yourself?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Yes

Good. I bet a beer on it.

[SlowwHand]

As I understand it, Isael citizens are pissed off for not securing the objective.

[PLATO]

Lebanon and Hizbullah appear to be positioning for a restart of hostilities IMO.

Please review the relevant quotes in This Article from msnbc.

Defense Minister Elias Murr:

“We consider that when the resistance (Hezbollah) is committed not to fire rockets, then any rocket that is fired from the Lebanese territory would be considered collaboration with Israel to provide a pretext (for Israel) to strike,” he said Sunday.

In addition, they are posturing for the public relations effect:

“I hope the international media transmits this picture to every person in the world so that it shows this criminal act, this crime against humanity,” the Western-backed prime minister said.

These items, in conjunction with the Lebanese Army's refusal to disarm Hizbullah, seem to spell disaster for the cease fire imo.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by PLATO
These items, in conjunction with the Lebanese Army's refusal to disarm Hizbullah, seem to spell disaster for the cease fire imo.

Stangely enough, I'd be more wary of the Israeli attacks that have occured on the Lebanese territory since the cease-fire had been announced.