"Complex" plot of blow up UK airlines foiled

[Dr Strangelove]

I saw an article about one of them, Ibraham Savant. He's a native Briton who converted to Islam several years ago. I think he converted because white guys stole his chick or something like that.

If the Pakistani government gave up information about this plot I wonder if it has blown its covert surveillance of al-Qaeda.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
A lot of these suspects are teenagers. I find it disturbing that many people have already convicted these boys and young men without even seeing, hearing, or reading the evidence.

Yeah, well, unlike José Padilla or the Sons of David or the Lackawanna Seven or Sami al-Arian, this seems to have been real.

[Sava]

And don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not claiming this plot is a fake or whatever. My point is clearly that whenever a situation like this occurs, a government should follow proper judicial procedures and afford suspects in such conspiracies the same rights to due process that anyone else would normarly be given.

I'm not saying anything about whether or not this plot is for real or not.

My feeling is, the authorities had reasonable intelligence indicating an attack was in the works or imminent, and they acted accordingly. Now that they have arrested the suspects, they need to sort out how each person is involved, the level of involvement, and prosecute these people in a court of law. If they are guilty of conspiring to commit acts of terrorism, they should go away to a PTITA prison...

But I'm not about to agree to giving any government the green light to just arrest people and hold them indefinitely without such due process. That is contrary to the principles of freedom.

[snoopy369]

Shockingly, I agree with Sava Must be Bourbonnais or something ...

[Sava]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Shockingly, I agree with Sava Must be Bourbonnais or something ...

BEARbonnais!

But seriously, it's not like believing in due process is some kind of radical idea... I mean, it was about 230 years ago when America declared independence, but I would assume that most people today would agree that due process is a good thing.

Though, I could understand how the Italian version of aneeshm would find the concept of due process a bit troubling.

Combine frothing hatred of Islam with the lasting imprint of Italian fascism, and well... I'm guess I'm really not surprised when such a person reacts to the notion of treating suspects of terrorist plots as if they had civil rights!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
But seriously, it's not like believing in due process is some kind of radical idea.

Why do you hate America?

[Datajack Franit]

[Datajack Franit]

civil rights my butt, criminals flying planes through buildings have none. not even the right of getting their 72 sluts in hell

[Sava]

Technically you are right... because they would be dead. And dead people don't have rights.



















Except for Terry Schiavo.

RIP

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
Technically you are right... because they would be dead. And dead people don't have rights.

QFT

[Datajack Franit]

She has the right of being broadcasted worldwide so that bored people can feed with her misery

[Sava]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
She has the right of being broadcasted worldwide so that bored people can feed with her misery

Just imagine how many people like Dis probably masturbated to her...

[chequita guevara]

She was a hottie















































when she still had a brain


damn that Illur

[Ramo]

Most interesting article I've seen on this:

August 10, 2006

Six Lessons from the London Airline Bombing Plot

What we now know about the London-based plot to destroy ten civilian airplanes points to six conclusions.

First, what stopped this plot was law enforcement. Law enforcement. Not a military invasion of Pakistan, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, or Iraq. Old-fashioned surveillance, development of human sources, putting pieces together, and cooperation with foreign police and intelligence services.

Second, the conspiracy—if it resembles the London bombings of last summer—will likely be home-grown, another of the growing jihad "fashion" in Europe that comprises the new street gangs of this world. It is not a religious movement, it is not fundamentalism. These are thin veneers. It is at root sheer violence undertaken by young men resentful of many things (not least the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and Lebanon) and ready to kill in return. Under different cirucmstances, it could be Tamils or Red Brigades or Michigan Militiamen, and has been.

Third, if al Qaeda was involved (allegedly from Pakistan), we can thank the failure of the war in Afghanistan and the cozying up to Musharraf to destroy them.

Fourth, there was no involvement by any American-based “cells,” according the FBI Director Robert Mueller. As many of us have been saying for nearly five years, and as the 9/11 Commission Report showed, there is virtually no plausible American jihad organization at work, and never has been.

Fifth, the plot again reveals how ill-equipped the U.S. Government has been in anticipating plausible attack scenarios and taking steps to prevent them. Liquid bombs were so hard to figure out? Al Qaeda already tried it. DHS has almost completely missed the threat, just as they are missing the vulnerability of cargo holds and God knows what else. Thomas Kean, the former GOP governor and co-chair of the 9/11 Commission, called this liquid bomb error “appalling” and wondered, on an NBC program four months ago, why no progress had been made. What are the tens of billions being spent on? This is Katrina II.

Sixth, and most important, we must end our involvement in Iraq and sharply refocus our presence in the region. The war president’s approach is not working. It’s a diversion from the real threat. It’s a spur to bitter revenge. It’s a big feedback loop that will endanger us for years, if not decades. Our lives are now at stake because the Bush catastrophe has created thousands of new terrorists.

Naturally, the politically expedient are trying to gain an edge. Defeated Senator Joseph Lieberman immediately attacked his victorious primary challenger Ned Lamont, saying that Lamont’s leave Iraq policy is somehow connected to this. It’s the opposite—the war distracts and inflames. We will see the crowing from the Bushies now, when in fact they were again asleep at the wheel, only this time the Brits saved the day. The war v. law enforcement contrast—remember how John Kerry was ridiculed by Cheney for suggesting that aggressive police work and human intelligence were anti-terror linchpins?—is now buried by conflating the “war against terror” in Iraq with this Scotland Yard and MI5 success.

Reversing America’s colossally destructive series of interventions in the Middle East—a cause, a trigger, a recruitment fountain, and a charity for jihad—will require an entirely different mindset, not just an adjustment or a measured retreat. When America responded, after being prodded, to the tsunami victims in Indonesia early last year, it profoundly changed Indonesians’ views of the United States. New attitudes of support and cooperation suddenly sprang forth. This “natural experiment” should be examined to learn from, possibly to emulate, in the Persian Gulf and elsewhere.

We’re now viewed as destroyers, and destruction is the retort. This is the “new Middle East” that is aborning—one of relentless violence—if we do not end our own relentless violence there. The would-be bombers in London are a reminder of how close it is.

--- John Tirman

http://www.johntirman.com/Insight%20jump.html

It's also apparant that a guy that the Brits picked up (and turned) last year was instrumental in uncovering the plot. It's important to note that double agents aren't acquired through the harsh interrogation practices that Dear Leader is so fond of, but through compassion and due process.

[Sava]

Good article.