"Complex" plot of blow up UK airlines foiled

[chequita guevara]

In the same period, 3,400 people died in Iraq. But it's not a civil war.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Except for the whole Israeli papers revealing this whole thing had been planned in advance with the U.S. and they were jus twaiting for a pretext.

No attack by Hezbollah, no 'pretext'.

The US and Canadian militaries in the early 20th century used to come up with plans for how to fight each other should a war break out. There was never any attack, and no need to put plans into effect.

Are you arguing that a miltary doing its job (being prepared) automatically implies aggression by the side that is attacked?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by DinoDoc
che: What's the proper response

One can know what the wrong answer is without necessarily knowing the right one.

I can heartily agree that the Israelis went about this in a half assed way relying too much on the "magic" of airpower to do their work for them. I however can not fault the reaction given the number of provocations and the threat represented. I'm just curious is it the reaction itself you fault or simply the half-assed way they went about it.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by NeOmega
anybody want to know about SWIFT? They have a website:

http://www.swift.com/

they also have a magazine, IIRC.

Not very super secret.

Not anymore, you've publicized it now and the terrorists thank you.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by NeOmega


You suspect based on what? And how much do you really know about the Lebanese government? Here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/guides/456900/456976/html/nn1page1.stm

read up.

and for 1,100 Lebanese to be killd in auto accidents would mean more about 3 would have to die a day in autoaccident. Lebanon has a population of about 3.4 million, so that would mean it would need to have a fatal accident rate about 5 times that of an average US city.

Also note, Lebanon surely does not have the same amount of motorists as the US, per capita.

Ok, then add other accidents to auto accidents. The point is that this year is going to go down in Leb history based on the deaths from Israel and Hezb, not from accidents.

And of course Guev mentioned being stopped for walking around after midnight as "being messed with: at least in the areas the leb govt controlls, Im sure they do that. I was not trying to start anothe discussion of the war, just pointing out the meaninglessness of the vague "being messed with"

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Except for the whole Israeli papers revealing this whole thing had been planned in advance with the U.S. and they were jus twaiting for a pretext.

given the situation in Lebanon, it would have been irresponsible not to have had a plan in place.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the same period, 3,400 people died in Iraq. But it's not a civil war.

Im not sure if its a civil war, but its definitely the highest item on the political agenda of every Iraqi. Did i say otherwise?

[Dauphin]

Lotm, I say now (as I've had a few drinks) I think you have many valid points. I find it interesting that people can see the same fundamental details pretty much the same, yet draw different conclusions. That is to say, I often find myself agreeing with the conclusions of those whose views I don't actually agree with on a fundamental basis.

Am I in right wing denial?

[Kuciwalker]

Come over to the dark side

[Dauphin]

I've always been right wing economically, its just social issues that I have a conscience for.

[Solly]

Being right-wing economically was the only choice since the 1970s. Left-wing economics was broken.

Why do you intimate that right-wing socially implies a lack of conscience?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No terrorist ever spied on me. My government has. No terrorist stopped me and searched me for walking down the street at 1am. My government has. No terroist ever surrounded me and questioned and went through my things because I happened to be wearing black. My government has. No terrorist ever stole my vote. My government has. I could go on.

Actually if you'd lived in N.Ireland then you might well have got terrorists doing most, if not all these things. As it is, down there in Florida, you only have to worry about your government and hurricanes.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Terrorism is rather low on the list of things that are likely to mess with me, where as, my government has.

I'm very pleased for you that there hasn't been attempt to blow you up.

The 7/7 'bus bomb' was actually scheduled to explode on the Northern Line underground more-or-less directly underneath my flat. Typically, the train was cancelled and the bomber wandered off in a panic to explode somewhere else.

Like most Londoners I tell myself all the time that it is highly unlikely that I will get killed, but none of us can forget that there are people trying to kill us.

I'm not giving the govt a free pass here, Che, and I actually agree with your point that in many cases our own governments can cause us as much trouble as the terrorists. My point is that when it goes off in your neighbourhood, and more and more local muslim women start wearing fundamentalist garb, presumably under threat from local despots, its hard to pretend that the problem isn't there.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I think I gave some money for the war widows in Northern Ireland during the 80s.

Me too, I'm embarrassed to say, as I have serious doubts that the money was used, as advertised, for welfare programs for victims of the conflict.

Luckily, you can't get many armalites for the 50 pence I dropped in the 'families of the bereaved' tin.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm just curious is it the reaction itself you fault or simply the half-assed way they went about it.

Both.

They decided to take Lebanon apart when they were only at war with Hezbollah. Lebanon was a more functional democracy than Iraq, and they just gave it a serious blow.

I'm also rather unhappy at the half-assed way they tried to accomplish their objectives, since they've definately strengthened the hand of Hezbollah (who is now winning the hearts and minds of Lebanon by rebuilding) and the Iranian mullahs.

If they weren't prepared to do it right, they shouldn't have done it at all. Everyone in the region would have been better off if they'd simply negotiated, or hit Hezbollah back and then negotiated.