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Putting a stake in the heart of the Laffer Curve.

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  • Putting a stake in the heart of the Laffer Curve.

    Now even Bush's Treasury has been forced to admit that tax cuts don't pay for themselves. Of course, anyone who was intellectually honest knew this 20 years ago due to the incredible amount of honest research which all concluded the it was a lie yet the far right continued to claim that cutting taxes raised revenue.

    The Last Laffer
    Bush's Treasury admits that tax cuts aren't free.
    By Jason Furman
    Posted Monday, July 31, 2006, at 1:16 PM ET

    In Washington, as in fairy tales, be careful what you wish for. In a February speech, Vice President Cheney said, "It's time to re-examine our assumptions and to consider using more dynamic analysis to measure the true impact of tax cuts on the American economy." Calling for "dynamic analysis" or "dynamic scoring" can be supply-side code language for the view that tax cuts pay for much or all of themselves through stronger economic growth. Cheney proposed creating a new unit within Treasury to conduct this dynamic analysis and confidently predicted that it would find that tax cuts increase government revenues.

    Six months later, Treasury's first dynamic analysis of the president's policies is out. It belies the claim that the Bush proposal to make his tax cuts permanent will either pay for itself or galvanize the economy.

    There has long been a conflict between responsible conservative economists who make carefully hedged claims about the relatively modest economic effects of tax cuts and Laffer curve lovers, who think that tax cuts always spur enormous gains. And lately, emboldened by the large jump in tax revenues in 2005 and 2006 (and conveniently overlooking the nearly unprecedented three consecutive years of declining tax revenues that preceded it), Laffer disciples have widened their separation from mainstream economists into a chasm.

    On one side of the divide is the supply-sider in chief, who recently abandoned six years of somewhat more cautious statements on the subject to proclaim that tax cuts really do raise revenues:

    Some in Washington think the choice is between cutting taxes and cutting the deficit. This week's numbers show that this is a false choice. The economic growth fueled by tax relief has helped send tax revenues soaring.

    On the other side are the intellectually rigorous, professional economists who sit across the street from the White House at the Treasury Department, who were tasked with carrying out Cheney's "dynamic analysis" of President Bush's proposal to make the tax cuts permanent. "An important feature of this model is that a permanent reduction in taxes, as compared to baseline, would lead to an unsustainable accumulation of debt," they write.

    In place of a false choice of tax cuts magically paying for themselves and not costing anything, the Treasury offered a very real and painful one: The tax cuts need to be paid for by "either cutting future government spending or raising future taxes." And even if you take the path of cutting government programs—which is not the path the country is on today—Treasury found only minuscule economic effects from the tax cuts: a mere 0.7 percent increase in the size of the economy after many years.

    To put that number in perspective, averaged over 20 years, an increase in the economy of 0.7 percent is equivalent to a 0.04 percent increase in the average annual growth rate. So, instead of limping along at a mere 3 percent growth rate, the economy would charge ahead at a 3.04 percent growth rate.

    Notably missing from the Treasury report was the variable of greatest public interest: revenues. Although Treasury's model almost certainly estimated the degree to which the added growth helped pay for the tax cuts, officials there appear to have chosen not to report the number. But some simple arithmetic can fill in this gap: About one in every five dollars of national output is collected by the federal government in taxes. If that same ratio applies to the output added by the economic effects of the tax cuts, then the added revenues produced by the increased economic growth would be enough to offset less than one-tenth of the official "static" estimate of the tax cuts' cost.

    Furthermore, all these barely perceptible benefits rest on the assumption that starting in 2017, the tax cuts would be fully paid for with cuts of unprecedented depth in federal programs—totaling about a 50 percent reduction in all domestic spending other than entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. If such cuts were not made—and not even President Bush has proposed making them—then the resulting deficits, debt, and eventual tax increases would eliminate even these modest economic benefits.

    If we believe that spending cuts of this magnitude are unrealistic, then the Treasury economists have another important finding: The sooner we get rid of the tax cuts, the better it will be for the economy. Specifically, they found that national output would be 0.9 percent higher in the long run if we let them expire in 2010 rather than allowing them to continue along, forcing us to face even bigger tax increases in the future to make up for all of the added deficits and debt.

    The Treasury report probably won't change the minds of supply-siders, coming as it does on top of 25 years of similar findings by economists. But it should help convert Democrats into true believers in dynamic analysis.
    Naturally people who have spent 25 years denying a mountain of scientific evidence will just continue lying and some people will be ignorant enough or mentally deficient enough to believe them.

    In Washington, as in fairy tales, be careful what you wish for. In a February speech, Vice President Cheney said, "It's time to re-examine our...
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    Doesn't surprise me. The problem with supply-side economics is that giving the wealthy extra money so they can use it to pump it into the economy during the recession is that the wealthy won't do it. Someone with a lot of money is going to save it during a recession and spend it during growth. A business will expand only if it is profitable to do so, and it will be less likely to be profitable during a recession.
    "The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

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    • #3
      The Laffer curve seems almost as misused as the term "neo-con"...
      KH FOR OWNER!
      ASHER FOR CEO!!
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      • #4
        Originally in the 1970's the laugher curve was designed for a very specific case where take arate were EXTREMELY high as in 70%-100%. In those extreme cases people spend more time avoiding taxes so lower the tax rate can actually encourage people who were evading taxes to start paying taxes.

        The Republicans have spent 25 years deliberately misusing the Laffer Curve to justify totally nonscientific supply side economics. They continually claim, dispite decades of virtually unanimous scientific research which contradicts them, that cutting taxes pays for itself and thus they can run up massive deficits, cut taxes on their wealthy patrons, and never worry. It is a lie.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          Originally in the 1970's the laugher curve was designed for a very specific case where take arate were EXTREMELY high as in 70%-100%. In those extreme cases people spend more time avoiding taxes so lower the tax rate can actually encourage people who were evading taxes to start paying taxes.


          No one knows where the apex of the Laffer curve lies. Not that it even exists, as there's no such thing as a literal Laffer curve. It's just a simplified illustration that helps people understand why tax rates that are too high can actually reduce tax revenues.

          [q]The Republicans have spent 25 years deliberately misusing the Laffer Curve to justify totally nonscientific supply side economics. They continually claim, dispite decades of virtually unanimous scientific research which contradicts them, that cutting taxes pays for itself and thus they can run up massive deficits, cut taxes on their wealthy patrons, and never worry. It is a lie.[/
          KH FOR OWNER!
          ASHER FOR CEO!!
          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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          • #6
            Originally in the 1970's the laugher curve was designed for a very specific case where take arate were EXTREMELY high as in 70%-100%. In those extreme cases people spend more time avoiding taxes so lower the tax rate can actually encourage people who were evading taxes to start paying taxes.


            No one knows where the apex of the Laffer curve lies. Not that it even exists, as there's no such thing as a literal Laffer curve. It's just a simplified illustration that helps people understand why tax rates that are too high can actually reduce tax revenues.

            The Republicans have spent 25 years deliberately misusing the Laffer Curve to justify totally nonscientific supply side economics. They continually claim, dispite decades of virtually unanimous scientific research which contradicts them, that cutting taxes pays for itself and thus they can run up massive deficits, cut taxes on their wealthy patrons, and never worry. It is a lie.


            Criticize the Republicans then, if that's what you believe. There's no need to claim to be putting a "stake in the heart of the Laffer curve", which is a pretty uncontroversial economic concept.
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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            • #7
              The problem is the Laffer Curve is what the far right uses to attempt to justify their lies. It simply doesn't pan out in any scientific study. The claims are total bold faced lies and the people saying them know they are lies. Their own side even admits it yet we still have Bush claiming (just two weeks ago) that the Laffer Curve somehow proves his tax cuts for the wealthy will pay for themselves and will boast growth in some significant way.

              Even his own treasury department admits that the tax cuts will only boost the economy 0.7% over a 20 year period. They refused to say how much growth would be reduced due to the massive accumulation of debt the tax cuts are costing.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                So, once again, dispute the lies and not the economic concept (around since the 14th century!) that is incorrectly used to support those lies...
                KH FOR OWNER!
                ASHER FOR CEO!!
                GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                • #9
                  Did the author bother to even read the dynamic analysis?
                  "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                  “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                  • #10
                    The problem is evolution is what the social darwinists use to justify their lies...

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                    • #11
                      My takes after reading the analysis.

                      According to the analysis:

                      1) Previous analysis of tax cuts would have shown 3 million less jobs as a without of 2001,2002,2003 tax cuts and a real GDP 3.5-4.0 lower

                      2) Long term real growth of 0.4 from dividends, 1.1 from 4 highest tax brackets, and negative effects bringing the GDP growth back to .7 if the lowest tax bracket tax cuts were made permanent.

                      3) Best long term growth established and recommended in the Dyanamic Analysis by tax cuts and reduction in government spending. The long term growth goes extremely negative when tax increases are recommended.
                      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                      • #12
                        Hello there! I see you are discussing Tax cuts. Perhaps I can be of assistance.

                        Way to build that Strawman, Oerdin, in last week's thread you couldn't wait to enact those tariffs. Maya Angelou, GePap, Lancer, and others. America is dying. ?Y que vamos a hacer cuando la frontera esta cerrada?
                        RoboCon v2.1.1

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                        • #13
                          Read the conclusion section especially. Its the tax cuts for the 10% tax bracket (low income) child care credit and marriage penalty, that cause the GDP to go negative in the long run.
                          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                          • #14
                            I know the tax cuts have certainly helped my personal economy.

                            Maybe they should just spend less?
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                            • #15
                              I thought this had something to do with Larry Laffer.
                              I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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