Iran-Venezuela Alliance

[chequita guevara]

The Jews have two states: New York and Florida.

[Datajack Franit]

FUERZA ALLAH

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Heresson
Syria had absolutely NO gain in the said assassination.

Heresson, you need to get out of the sun and stop believing everything you read in the Syrian state press. It is harming your brain.

Syria had everything to gain in the said assassination because the former PM was the main guy arguing that Syria should be forced out and Lebanon should have real independence from the Syrian dictatorship. They just underestimated how unpopular their assassination would be in Lebanon. Even the UN has basically concluded that Syria ordered the assassination.

[Odin]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Wow, that's interesting. A theoretically christian presumably communist atheist pseudodictator joining forces with a muslim theocrat ...

I don't think you can realistically blame Bush for this one. Any superpower will have its enemies, and they will join forces in an attempt to overpower the superpower. Fortunately we Americans are not particularly worried by this pair of crazies

Chavez isn't a commie, he's a populist with moderate socialist leanings and with, like most populists, a tendincy towards demogogury.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Odin
Chavez isn't a commie, he's a populist with moderate socialist leanings and with, like most populists, a tendincy towards demogogury.

By the standards of this day and age, his socialist leanings are fairly strong. Not only does he seriously redistribute the wealth from oil, he also is elaborating trade partnerships that aren't based on private trade, but on state-to-state trade.

[Vince278]

It would be just easier to say he is a rabble rousing idiot.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I got you, so just so we don't provoke the ire of the rest of the middle east, we should thumb our nose at the principles of democratic western civilization which is the real reason for supporting Isreal.

If we transplanted Isreal and Belgium, Belgium would have all the same problems, and we would equally support them as we do Isreal.

The simple fact is that in most cases Isreal is by far on the right side of the arguement, and the rest of the ME on the wrong.

QFT

[Heresson]

The gap in Jewish SOVEREIGNTY extended from the Bar Kohba revolt to 1948, 1800 years. There was an extensive Jewish presence after the Bar Kohba revolt. There were Jewish majorities in several cities, and there was still an extensive presence of Jewish farmers in the north untill circa 900CE. The Jerusalem Talmud was completed in the land of Israel circa 400 to 500 CE, and the Masoretic texts of the bible were completed there circa 900CE.

Jews ceased to be a significant minority in these times. Not to mention that they weren't a majority, and moreover, even before jewish state was destroyed, it consisted of only a small part of Palestine.

The Jewish community of Jerusalem was destroyed in the first crusade. There was, nonetheless a Jewish presence in Acco, etc during the crusader period.

From what I've read, Jews had a large presence in these times only in Jerusalem and Tiberias or Safad. Probably in Acco as well, for it was the largest city in the Syropalestine coast, but of 60000 of its citizens or so, how much were there Jews? 5%? Or less?

Shortly thereafter Jews moved to Israel from the diaspora, including Rabbi Nachmanides, who had been expelled from Aragon. In the 1500's almost 10,000 mainly Spanish Jews moved there, creating Jewish majorities in Tiberias, Tzfat, and Jerusalem. The community was the home of Isaac Luria and other mystics, whose mystic approach to Judaism was influential throughout the Jewish world.

I certainly doubt Jerusalem was majorly Jewish. It was not in XIX century, before zionist started settling there. Majority of old town of Jerusalem is christian, and another part of it is muslim...

Your claims only state that Jews were present there, which I do not deny. They do not give Jews any right to these lands. There were twice as many or more Jews (by percentage, not to mention by numbers) of Jews in Byelorus and Poland than in Palestine.

The Irish have an independent state. If Israel can have an independent state, they can give up their claims to Judea and Samaria.

Jews have an autonomous region in USSR. who do You mean by "they" in the case of Judea and Samaria, which, I believe, is how Israelis refer to West Bank?
Also, it's not a complete necessity for Jews to have a state, especially if they had no land of their own to create it on.

You may have clarified your position in the past, but you confuse the issue each time you refer to robbery of lands without specifiying which you are talking about.

I mean both. Israel did many wrong to Arabs, so it should not be suprised by their hatred towards it.

There is a dispute about certain lands along the Sea of Gallilee that Israel claims are not Syrian - this is a dispute referring back to the 1949 armistice lines. The amount of land is trivial compared to the entire extent of the Golan Heights. In any case, Hafez Assad refused to concede a full peace.

These "certain lands" block Syrian (and anyone elses but Israeli) access to water supplies of Sea of Galilea, which are extremly important, and more valuable than the rest of Golan Heights.

The only area conquered from Jordan in 1967 that Israel DID annex was Jerusalem. Israel at Camp David and Taba offered to withdraw from 95% of the West Bank.

You know very well that the proposal was many times compared to creating bantustans, for the territory would be cut off from everything by israeli control of Jordan river and boarder, and roads going to illegal jewish settlements.
It's not only Jerusalem, but also a wide corridor to it. And West Bank as it is consitutes together with Gaza less than a quater of original Palestine, and even that Israel doesn't want to return fully.

8 out of 56 is 1/7... while in case of Israel, the proportions would be opposite. Fresh immigrants were a great majority of the creators of Israel.

Heresson, you need to get out of the sun and stop believing everything you read in the Syrian state press. It is harming your brain.

Deary, I've read some proceedings of political trials... and other stuff...
It's not as if I believe everything they say or support everything they do.

Syria had everything to gain in the said assassination because the former PM was the main guy arguing that Syria should be forced out and Lebanon should have real independence from the Syrian dictatorship. They just underestimated how unpopular their assassination would be in Lebanon. Even the UN has basically concluded that Syria ordered the assassination.

Still, I believe Syrians, to do it, would have to be so extremly dumb that I do not believe it.
You can easily forge stuff pointing the blame on someone else. Especially if You have one of the best intelligences.