"We choose to go to the moon this decade and do the other thing. Not because they...

[MRT144]

kennedy was like a worse reagan

[Vince278]

Originally posted by MRT144
kennedy was like a worse reagan

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[MRT144]

i should have posed that as a question

[mrmitchell]

Re: Re: "We choose to go to the moon this decade and do the other thing. Not because they...

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Took on the task of breaking the back of the Jim Crow laws and desegregating the U.S.

Not only continued the Truman Doctrine of containing communist expansion but tried to roll it back by invading Cuba and attempting to have Castro assassinated.

Squared off against Big Steel when it looked as if it were price fixing.

Sent the FBI after the Mafia.

Kicked Russian missiles out of Cuba.

Founded the Peace Corp. and engaged in other acts of international diplomacy and good will.

Got America off its flabby ass by popularizing fifty mile hikes.

And seduced Marilyn Monroe.

...all in just a 1,000 days of Camelot.

So far Imran has only cast doubt on his civil rights record. Six or seven things still remain.

And even he's in agreement that JFK did the most for the Civil Rights Act by dying.

Better, he famously shook the hand of an even greater future President. Kennedy

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's the biggest BS of Kennedy. His 'invading' of Cuba was a cluster**** known as the "Bay of Pigs" invasion. Zkribbler should be ashamaed for even mention that foriegn policy blunder. And all those assassination attempts on Castro? It isn't a good thing when it comes out and the guy is still alive!!

As for "kicked Russian missles out of Cuba", only after he acted like a damned cowboy (Maybe he is like George W.). All he had to do was have a private conversation with Krushchev, agree to take out the Turkish missles for the Cuban ones to go away and we wouldn't have this utter panic and calling out in public. His "greatest achievement" was handled like "Bring It On" GW Bush. Horrid, horrid work.

[Vince278]

Re: Re: "We choose to go to the moon this decade and do the other thing. Not because they...

Originally posted by Zkribbler
And seduced Marilyn Monroe.

Not easy with a bad back.

I believe she did some of the seducing herself. Certain types of women are naturally attracted to men with power. Just look at Clinton's experiences. Of course, certain types of men also find it hard to say no.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
That's the biggest BS of Kennedy. His 'invading' of Cuba was a cluster**** known as the "Bay of Pigs" invasion. Zkribbler should be ashamaed for even mention that foriegn policy blunder.

RTFQ... The question was, what did Kennedy choose to do that was hard.

He was the first President who attempted to roll back the tide of Communism. It happened only two other times: Reagan's invasion of Grenada and our aid to the Islamic "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan. The rest of the time, we were on the defensive.


As for the Russian missiles....It's hard to have a private talk with Krushchev when Russian were denying there were any missiles there at all. And indeed, they didn't agree to pull their missiles out until we had quaranteed the island and were building an invasion force in Florida.

The Russians weren't willing to swap their Cuban missiles for anything as petty as our Jupiter missiles in Turkey (which BTW Kennedy had already ordered removed). Rather, their plan was to swap their Cuban missiles for West Berlin.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


RTFQ... The question was, what did Kennedy choose to do that was hard.

He was the first President who attempted to roll back the tide of Communism. It happened only two other times: Reagan's invasion of Grenada and our aid to the Islamic "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan. The rest of the time, we were on the defensive.

You are really blinded on the Bay of Pigs, Zkribbler. We trained Cuban ex-pats, dropped them on the beach and promised air support. At the last second Kennedy chickened out, leaving the ex-pats to get slaughtered. Yeah, that's rolling back Communism and tells the Commies we really mean it!

As for the Russian missiles....It's hard to have a private talk with Krushchev when Russian were denying there were any missiles there at all. And indeed, they didn't agree to pull their missiles out until we had quaranteed the island and were building an invasion force in Florida.

The Russians weren't willing to swap their Cuban missiles for anything as petty as our Jupiter missiles in Turkey (which BTW Kennedy had already ordered removed). Rather, their plan was to swap their Cuban missiles for West Berlin.

Oh please... yeah, the Russians were denying the missles were there which is why you show them the pictures and say, Nikita, we know they are there. As for they wanted to trade it for West Berlin, what bull****. They were threatened by missles on the coast of Turkey (and really, for us to have nuclear missles on the Turkish coast and throw a temper tantrum on the Soviets putting nuclear missles on Cuba (after we'd already tried to overthrow and kill the Soviet vassel, mind).

Historians see Krushchev's moving missles into Cuba as a direct response to the Turkish missles and this is the first time I've ever heard of a 'swap for West Berlin'. Hell, even the wikipedia article doesn't make mention of that.

In addition, British PM Harold MacMillian was puzzled why this wasn't handled through diplomacy as opposed to bombastic public spectacles.

It was a ****up by Kennedy, pure and simple.

[RGBVideo]

Kennedy and Cuba

You are really blinded on the Bay of Pigs, Zkribbler. We trained Cuban ex-pats, dropped them on the beach and promised air support. At the last second Kennedy chickened out, leaving the ex-pats to get slaughtered. Yeah, that's rolling back Communism and tells the Commies we really mean it!

RTFQ... The question was, what did Kennedy choose to do that was hard.

He was the first President who attempted to roll back the tide of Communism. It happened only two other times: Reagan's invasion of Grenada and our aid to the Islamic "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan. The rest of the time, we were on the defensive.

Fun with facts: What is now known as "Bay of Pigs" was designed by the Eisenhower administration. The training of motivated Cuban exiles was started by the President and CIA as a top secret, covert operation in May 1960. What was covert became obviously overt when Kennedy (who had received information about CIA's operations in Cuba from Allen Dulles, director of CIA, during a private meeting initiated by President Eisenhower in 1960) decided to reveal and support CIA's intention to coup Castro -- during a live TV debate against Nixon. After that, Castro knew how the Americans were after his head, and in hindsight it's easy to say that the whole coup was now doomed. The whole world got to know about the main point of the plan so Kennedy could appear to be tougher on communism than Nixon was, and thus his campaign team eliminated the key weakness of the Democratic candidate in the election.

Zkribbler, I'm sorry to burst your probably decades old Hero-bubble, but Kennedy didn't invent the "Bay of Pigs" -plan to bring democracy to Cuba -- he destroyed it.

[Zkribbler]

Let me repeat myself:

Originally posted by Zkribbler
RTFQ... The question was, what did Kennedy choose to do that was hard.

So my question is: Was attempting to roll back communism something that was hard?
My answer: Yes.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Let me repeat myself:

So my question is: Was attempting to roll back communism something that was hard?
My answer: Yes.

And you are still wrong. He didn't really attempt to roll back Jack or ****. Just admit you were wrong and got pwned and we can stop playing this game of back and forth. Kennedy was a coward and he's lucky he was shot or else it'd be him and not W who'd be remembered as the worst Prez after WW2.

[Zkribbler]

Imran, I wuv you, but what the heck are you talking about??

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And you are still wrong. He didn't really attempt to roll back Jack or ****.

What was the Bay of Pigs all about then, if not and attempt to roll back communism??

Kennedy was a coward ...

Where the heck did this accusation come from???

...and he's lucky he was shot or else it'd be him and not W who'd be remembered as the worst Prez after WW2.

Sorry. Even if your speculations are correct and JFK wouldn't have been able to get the Civil Rights Act through Congress and he wouldn't have begun pulling troops out of Vietnam but instead would have escalated a la LBJ, (a) Bush would still be worst that JFK and (b) Nixon would still be worse that both of them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
What was the Bay of Pigs all about then, if not and attempt to roll back communism??

Read VJ's post. It was an Eisenhower idea that Kennedy had to be convinced to join onto, but then when he did, he had second thoughts and ****ed the whole thing up.

Where the heck did this accusation come from???

Committ Cuban ex-pats, then get cold feet about the air cover they needed or even Marines to back them. You want to roll back Communism instead of just talking about it? You don't do ****ty half measures.

Sorry. Even if your speculations are correct and JFK wouldn't have been able to get the Civil Rights Act through Congress and he wouldn't have begun pulling troops out of Vietnam but instead would have escalated a la LBJ, (a) Bush would still be worst that JFK and (b) Nixon would still be worse that both of them.

I think Nixon was a fairely decent Prez overall, so no go there. And W barely, barely edges out JFK in my 'crap Presidents since WW2' meter, but if JFK had lived, HE'D get the **** LBJ got for the Vietnam War. Add that to his general incompetance, and historians would have a field day with him.

Though, like I said, for the sake of his legacy, he was lucky he was assasinated (not that I think it was a big loss for the US anyway).

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Read VJ's post. It was an Eisenhower idea that Kennedy had to be convinced to join onto, but then when he did, he had second thoughts and ****ed the whole thing up.

Committ Cuban ex-pats, then get cold feet about the air cover they needed or even Marines to back them. You want to roll back Communism instead of just talking about it? You don't do ****ty half measures.

Ah, I see. Your point is becoming more clear.

You're right in saying that Kennedy did pull the air attacks. The plan called for bombers to fly from secret bases in Central America to eliminate Castro's Air Force. The problem was that, after the first air attack, Castro started screaming that the Americans were attacking him and that his island was about to be invaded.

Kennedy did not want the U.S.'s fingerprints on the invasion. It was supposed to be a "popular uprising" by disgrunted Cubans. Kennedy reasoned that if the USSR perceived the invasion as being a US invasion, the Cold War might go hot. So he backed off using anything that could be perceived as being U.S. intervension.

You say it was cowardly. However, the Soviets might have gone nuclear if they thought we were invading one of their satellites.

Kennedy's decision essentially doomed the invasion, but that decision might have avoided World War III.

[Zkribbler]

[Zkribbler momentarily turns into Imran]

But the weakenss showed by Kennedy in the Bay of Pigs invasion was one of the factors considered by Khrushev when he put nuclear missiles into Cuba.

[/End Imran mode]