10,000 Delhites given literacy by Sewa Bharati (a RSS affil. organisation ) . . . . .

[aneeshm]

In the context of Spiffor's fear that the RSS may revive some regressive tendencies :

In politics, this Hindu philosophy was translated into the philosophy of 'Integral Humanism'. A living example of this approach is witnessed in the transformation of Gonda District of U.P. from a backward area into a world-acclaimed model of ideal implementation of this philosophy

Nothing illustrates this philosophy better than the fundamental change it has brought about in the approach to tribal problems which is a gigantic one. India's tribals were branded as Adivasis (aboriginals), the original inhabitants of this country who were pushed into the jungles by later waves of so-called Aryan invaders. The very name carried the seeds of conflicts. However, the RSS considers the tribals as Vanavasis (forest dwellers) on par with Gramvasis (villagers) and Nagarvasis (city dwellers) Hindus. As a result of this fraternal approach, today there are almost 4,000 service projects run in tribal areas by the RSS volunteers. Although initially, these projects were started by city-dwellers for their tribal brethren, the aim was not to make the tribals dependent on others, but make them self-sufficient. As a result, all these projects are now being run by hundreds of RSS volunteers who have arisen from the ranks of the tribals themselves. Shri Chintaman Vanaga who is now a Member of Parliament is an excellent example of this trend.

The extreme travails faced by the RSS volunteers in this endeavour are best illustrated by the fact that the very RSS centre at Talasari was attacked by Communist activists a few years ago. The head of this Centre, Shri Appa Joshi was severely wounded and was hospitalized where the doctors had to put more than 150 stitches to his head. Still he refused to leave the Centre and this magnificent sacrifice paid in creating a chain of dedicated workers from the Vanavasis themselves like Vanaga. Late Smt. Godavaritai Parulekar, a well known social worker and a legend in her life time with leftist leanings, once visited Shri Balasaheb Deshpande, the Founder-President of Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram who praised her work and expressed his admiration of the work she had done amongst the Vanavasis in Thane district. In her reply, she remarked, she had no doubt created an awareness of their rights and privileges and the spirit to fight against injustice, but she had failed to bring about any basic positive change in their lives, while Madhavrao Kane through his Vanavasi Kalyan Kendra hostel, school and constructive activities at Talasari was successful in this, and that she was a witness to an unbelievable change in the lives of the local Vanavasi youths.

Untouchability is the bane of Hindu Society and great people like Dr Babasaheb Ambedkar, Veer Savarkar, Mahatma Gandhi, Mahatma Jyotiba Phule and others have tried to eradicate it in their own special ways on many levels. However, the silent work done by the RSS in this respects has had much more far reaching effect. Hindus from all castes attend RSS shakhas, but nobody is ever asked his caste or given any different treatment. All are considered only Hindus. This approach is bringing about a silent revolution in the rural areas not only in inter-caste relations, but even affecting a fundamental change in the attitudes of hitherto depressed classes.

To narrate a personal example, I myself belong to a nomadic backward tribe in which drinking alcohol is common. Even I was offered a cup of alcohol by my own father when I was still in the primary school. However, the RSS training came to my help. I stoutly refused to drink and till this moment, I have not touched a drop of alcohol. This is a personal example but indicative of a overall change that is taking place among the tribals where RSS is active.

The RSS plan for the eradication of untouchability has three aspects. One is to spread the social awareness (Prabodhan), the second religious awareness of the basically non-Hindu nature of untouchability and third is of course the practical activities of the RSS which bring people of all castes together. The major breakthrough came when the second Sarsanghchalak Shri Golwalkar Guruji brought ail heads of the different sects of Hindus on one platform and all of them proclaimed with one voice that untouchability had no place in Hinduism. 'Na Hindu Patito Bhavet'. This resulted in unprecedented scenes all over the country where prominent sages like Jagatguru Shankaracharya visited Dalit areas and took food with them. Garlanding of Dr Ambedkar's statue at Nagpur by Shankaracharya himself cleared a number of misunderstandings in the minds of Dalits.

Realizing the fact that the Hindu philosophy which is the main source for this all-embracing movement is treasured in Sanskrit, RSS decided to make efforts of reviving this language not on scholarly studies but even in every day use also. Shri Krishnashastri is a Pracharak (full time honorary worker) of RSS totally dedicated to this job. Classes for speaking and writing Sanskrit have been conducted with tremendous success with the result that a number of villages are now using Sanskrit in their day-to-day life.

Another aspect of the silent change brought about by the RSS is the training and appointing of backward class or Dalit persons as priests in temples in increasing numbers even in areas dominated by orthodox elements. When such appointments were contested in the Court of Law, RSS people fought the case on the principle that every Hindu with the knowledge of performing the rites has a right to be a temple priest and got a favourable verdict of the Court. This practice of trained Hindus from all casts is now catching on.

I think that should clear up any doubts .

[Dr Strangelove]

So they're taking up where Mahatma Ghandi left off? Comendable!
The plan could work. What happens to the original volunteer teachers when the second wave begins to start to work? IMHO they should remain at their stations in order to assist and supervise the new volunteers.

BTW, weren't Ghandi's assassins members of BJP?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

So they're taking up where Mahatma Ghandi left off? Comendable!
The plan could work. What happens to the original volunteer teachers when the second wave begins to start to work? IMHO they should remain at their stations in order to assist and supervise the new volunteers.

The original volunteers remain at their stations , not just to assist , but also to teach another batch ( so that , in the second wave , 20,000 people will be taught ) .

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

BTW, weren't Ghandi's assassins members of BJP?

Nope . This is a common misconception .

Some say that the person who assassinated the Mahatma was initially a member of the RSS , but left the organisation because it was too moderate for him ( he was a total fanatic , and blamed Gandhi for the partition of the nation ) . It was suspected that the RSS may have been involved . On the basis of this suspicion alone , and with not a shred of proof ( which could not have existed , for the reason that they weren't involved ) , the RSS was banned . Later , there was a thorough investigation , and it was conclusively proven that the RSS was not involved , and the ban had to be revoked .

From the Wiki article on Godse ( Gandhi's assassin ) :

Aftermath

Millions of Indians mourned Gandhi's assassination. Some rioted and attacked Hindu activists. The Hindu Mahasabha was vilified and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the RSS, was temporarily banned. However, later investigators could find no evidence that the RSS bureaucracy had formally sponsored or even knew of Godse's plot. The RSS ban was lifted by Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel in 1949.

The RSS to this day deny any connection with Godse and dispute the claim that he was a member; they say that Godse was definitively a member of the Congress Party, and that if any party should be blamed, it should be the Congress, not the RSS.

Savarkar was also charged with conspiracy in the assassination of Gandhi, but was acquitted and subsequently released.

The Savarkar bit is important , because he was the founder of the Hindutva ideology , and he is also often accused of being party to the assassination .

In the RSS worldview , Mahatma Gandhi was a saint , who , though he had his flaws , is a person we should learn from . The RSS adopts the Gandhian view on self-sufficiency , abstinence from drink and other vices , and on a number of things concerning social reform , but consider his theory of non-violence as suitable only as a narrow form of protest in only a given context . They believe that you should try to be non-violent as long as possible , but that does not mean that you should descend into cowardice ( a sensible view , as far as I am concerned ) when faced with a violent threat .

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm




In the RSS worldview , Mahatma Gandhi was a saint , who , though he had his flaws , is a person we should learn from .

Hmmm.

Sardar Patel, the Deputy Prime Minister and Home Minister in Nehru’s Cabinet, was himself inclined to view the Mahasabha and the RSS as organizations that had together created an atmosphere in which, as he wrote on 18 July 1848 to the Hindu Mahasabha leader, Shyam Prasad Mookerjee,

“such a ghastly tragedy [Gandhi’s assassination] became possible. There is no doubt in my mind that the extreme section of the Hindu Mahasabha was involved in this conspiracy.”

Yet, as Patel added, in terms that leave no room to doubt that from his standpoint the RSS also stood implicated in Gandhi’s assassination,

“The activities of the RSS constituted a clear threat to the existence of Government and the State. Our reports show that those activities, despite the ban, have not died down. Indeed, as time has marched on, the RSS circles are becoming more defiant and are indulging in their subversive activities in an increasing measure.”

Two months later, on September 11th, Patel was again unequivocal in his denunciation of the role played by the RSS in Gandhi’s assassination: addressing Golwalkar, Patel spoke about the “poison” spread by the RSS. Following Gandhi’s murder,

“Even an iota of the sympathy of the Government or of the people no more remained for the RSS. In fact opposition grew. Opposition turned more severe, when the RSS men expressed joy and distributed sweets after Gandhiji’s death.”

I've heard of people commemorating the memory of saints, but not celebrating at their assassination.

One more 'modern' R.S.S. member's view of Gandhiji:

The New India: Strength at Any Cost


"Gandhi said if someone slaps you on one cheek, show him the other. Now we feel that Gandhi's method was not correct," said Mehta, a 56-year-old builder who has eagerly participated in the RSS's daily dawn meetings since he was 5.

Gandhi "made us cowards," said Mehta, an intense and articulate man. "We have come out of this after 50 years."

Vasant Tambe, chief of the RSS in Bombay, expanded on a frequent RSS theme: Hindu weakness has left India unable to defend itself from foreign invaders and influences.

"Unfortunately, people forgot their past and their history. They lost their identity and started quarreling among themselves. This culminated in a weak society," he said.

"The RSS's concept is to build a strong nation, from nuclear weapons to strong human beings with strong minds. . . . We want this society to be very strong, strong enough that nobody will dare to look at us unfairly."

The Philadelphia Inquirer
MAY 27, 1998; Pg. A03

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom



Hmmm.




I've heard of people commemorating the memory of saints, but not celebrating at their assassination.

Where did you get this "they celebrated" thing ? I doubt it is a reliable source .

Though the RSS was critical of some of the Mahatma's policies , I doubt the organisation itself would celebrate his killing . It is possible , however , that some fringe group within the RSS ( the RSS is and was an incredibly diverse organisation , which does not dictate how a person must think , but only dictates that a person must be dedicated to his country ( their goal is , after all , to unite India ) ) may have been happy at Gandhi's demise , and may have , even against the wishes of the RSS leadership , celebrated .

Originally posted by molly bloom

One more 'modern' R.S.S. member's view of Gandhiji:

The Philadelphia Inquirer
MAY 27, 1998; Pg. A03

I understand what he is trying to say ( which you may not understand , since you are not exposed that much to the Indian view of Gandhi ) . He is saying that the policy of non-violence which Gandhi espoused , when indiscriminately applied to situations where it is not applicable , is not desirable . The way non-violent ideology dominated discourse for such a long time , and stifled any other thought , and how this domination has to be overcome , is what he is trying to express as "We have come out of this after 50 years." . Even when I was a child , the dominant view was of Gasndhian non-violence only , and people of another bent of mind felt stifled . You were considered a "bad person" if you differed with Gandhi , and nobody would listen to you . The RSS member I know is also critical of some of Gandhi's policies , but still considers him a saint . The RSS , as sais before , is critical of some of what Gandhi said , but accepts his other messages ( such as regarding social reform , charity , abstinence from vices , etc. ) .


Gandhi himself knew that his policies could only work against the British ( who considered themselves civilised people , and thus were bound by their own image of themselves ) . He would never have advocated these policies against an opponent not open to them ( such as by the Allies against the Germans in WW2 , for example ) . But later in his life , he got too taken in by his own theories , and lost his earlier pragmatism .


As for the larger goal - of making a strong society , with a strong military , and strong intellectual traditions , capable of roundly kicking an invader's ass - I see nothing wrong . Do you ?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Where did you get this "they celebrated" thing ? I doubt it is a reliable source .

Of course you do. Whaddashock. I'm sure that today's cleaned-up version of the R.S.S. would never admit to having done any such thing.

As for the larger goal - of making a strong society , with a strong military , and strong intellectual traditions , capable of roundly kicking an invader's ass I see nothing wrong .

It all depends on who defines what makes the society strong and what the 'strong' military is for.

A secular society is stronger than a fractured society divided along fascistic pseudo-religio-cultural lines- as the unfortunate examples of Sri Lanka and Northern Ireland and Yugoslavia would seem to indicate.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Of course you do. Whaddashock. I'm sure that today's cleaned-up version of the R.S.S. would never admit to having done any such thing.

Even assuming , purely for the sake of argument , that earlier the RSS had more undesirable elements , which it has now cleaned out ( a view to which I do not subscribe , but am assuming for the sake of argument ) , what exactly is the problem ? Do you object to their cleaning up theri act ? Or to their new , clean form ? Or their objectives of making India strong .

Originally posted by molly bloom

It all depends on who defines what makes the society strong and what the 'strong' military is for.

A society is strong when it can weather any and all attacks against it , and when it takes good care of all its members and protects their rights .

The strong military is to be used for defensive and punitive action when the nation is attacked .

Originally posted by molly bloom

A secular society is stronger than a fractured society divided along fascistic pseudo-religio-cultural lines- as the unfortunate examples of Sri Lanka and Northern Ireland and Yugoslavia would seem to indicate.

Correct . That is why the RSS encourages Muslims ( and other non-Hindus ) to join the organisation and to adopt Indian culture , so that Indian society is strong from the inside also .

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Correct . That is why the RSS encourages Muslims ( and other non-Hindus ) to join the organisation and to adopt Indian culture , so that Indian society is strong from the inside also .

What is this vague 'Indian' culture ? And who is defining it ?

what exactly is the problem ? Do you object to their cleaning up theri act ? Or to their new , clean form ? Or their objectives of making India strong .

I have no objection to their sincerely cleaning up their act- after all, any organisation which had adherents or ideologues who thought what Hitler did with Europe's minorities was a good thing definitely needed to clean up its act.

As to their objectives for 'making India strong'- well increasing literacy and knowledge are good things. Fake 'Indian' identities based on some spurious notion of what Indian culture is ....(Hindi language only ? Hindu only ?)

It's all in the details...

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by molly bloom


What is this vague 'Indian' culture ? And who is defining it ?

Bad wording there on my part . I should have said that they encourage Muslims to join the Indian mainstream , in terms of national life and participation in it .

Originally posted by molly bloom

I have no objection to their sincerely cleaning up their act- after all, any organisation which had adherents or ideologues who thought what Hitler did with Europe's minorities was a good thing definitely needed to clean up its act.

Note that I never said that they had to clean up their act , merely that , assuming for purposes of argument , they might have to , what was the harm in them doing so ?

As for the Hitler thing - that same ideologue rejected his earlier writings as immature when he later saw what Hitler's policies led to . He was simply mimicking the Western intellectual trends of his time . There is a small article on this I'd like you to read :

Link

Originally posted by molly bloom

As to their objectives for 'making India strong'- well increasing literacy and knowledge are good things. Fake 'Indian' identities based on some spurious notion of what Indian culture is ....(Hindi language only ? Hindu only ?)

It's all in the details...

But do you not realise that their activities are exclusively positive ?

As an example : in the state of Madhya Pradesh ( the state in which I live ) , there is an area of land called Jhabua , where tribals live . Nehru called tribals adivasis , meaning the earlier inhabitants . What he meant to say was that the tribals were the real inhabitants of India , who were supplanted by the city-dwellers . The RSS , on the other hand , to give them dignity , gave them the name Vanvasis , meaning forest-dwellers , who were on par with gramvasis ( village-dwellers ) , and nagarvasis ( city-dwellers ) . When I was a child , the tribal area was dangerous , because the tribals used to attack vehicles passing through the area . That is why vehicles avoided the area at night , and travelled in a large group during the day . Today , that security problem is considerably lessened , because the RSS has done a tremendous amount of work among the tribals , and because the RSS was the first to give their existence dignity . They have , to take an instance , motivated a youth from each tribe to open a one-teacher school in each tribe , so that each tribe's children can at least have basic literacy and the rudiments of an education . This is much more than the government of India did in fifty years .

Hindi language only - no . The RSS started in the state of Maharashtra , where the language spoken is Marathi , and Maharashtra has since remained a traditional stronghold of the RSS . I myself am a Maharashtrian , and the language spoken at home is Marathi . They support local languages ( or they could never have gained a foothold in Maharashtra ) , but ( and I'm not sure about this , I'm totally guessing on what could be their probable stance ) support the introduction of Sanskrit as a pan-Indian contact language , much as the Jews revived Hebrew as a pan-Israeli language .

Hindu only - no . Jains , Buddhists , Sikhs , Parsees , atheists , agnostics , all are welcome . Christians and Muslims are welcome if they are willing to assimilate in the mainstream and to willing to put aside their exclusive ideas of monotheism to bow down to the national flag ( because , in their meetings , the RSS cadre bow down to the flag of India , not of Hinduism ) .






What most people do not realise is that the RSS does not have any official position on issues . They are a loose-knit bunch of likeminded people , with only one vision in common to all members - a great and united India . This allows a wide scope for the most moderate of people as well as the most fanatical of nutjobs - because it is possible for both to share the vision of a great India - because what constitutes great varies widely within the RSS itself .