Time for the draft?

[Lancer]

US forces in Korea are on high alert. NK says it will continue the launces. Japan considers rearmament while China supports NK.

US forces in Iraq are not sufficient to hold Iraq and fight Iran. Israel has now said that Iran has troops in Lebanon. If Israel and Iran go at it the US will likely be involved.

Volunteerism isn't doing the job. There is a lack of volunteers. With the possibility of a great war around the corner, should we reinstate the draft?

[Ecthy]

Draft is one of the greatest things for a democracy

[Zkribbler]

Draft drags unwilling young people into the military. They get depressed, take drugs and cause problems. They take their frustrations out on civilian populations. They make terrible soldiers.

Look what happened to us in Vietnam.

[Lancer]

I agree Ecthy, I'm interested to know your reasoning though. Why do you think that?

Zkrib, we may desperately need more troops in a hot hurry! If we don't draft, what do we do? It takes 4 months just to teach the basics, so it might already be too late. What do you suggest?

[Ecthy]

Zkribbler, the funny thing is, there are many arguments similar to yours in our country to oppose a voluntary army and support conscription. One general argument is that a professional army (as opposed to a draft army) would attract mostly the lowest parts of society, unducated and unemployed people with no chances of socio-economic success, which would make the army a breeding ground for illiberal ideologies. In fact, the US army is often seen as an example for such a pool of 'white trash' and the like. Then on the other hand trashy Americans are probably less prone to be attracted by extremist ideologies than 'white trash' in Germany

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Lancer
I agree Ecthy, I'm interested to know your reasoning though. Why do you think that?

It is a part of one theory on how a democratic nation works - the author claims that every individual of a 'nation' feels as a part of it due to certain rights he enjoys as a citizen and certain obligations he needs to fulfil. The most important right is that to vote (we're talking nation as a political community), the most important obligation is that to defend it from outside threats - conscription. It isn't my theory though, don't even fully agree with it, just thought I'd throw it in for a good start.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Draft is one of the greatest things for a democracy

Agree, but it should be including women too.

[Ecthy]

BlackCat - the interpretation of gender emancipation is one unanswered question of our times. We should either turn it all back a bit and say Yes to the notion that women are, on average, naturally weaker than men OR do it properly and institute the same rights and obligations (read theory above) for both genders. And for all those creeps who "don't know their gender"/ "don't feel right in their body" and whatever.

Mainstream

Old gender model

Meddling in between with males being the losers of the day

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Zkribbler, the funny thing is, there are many arguments similar to yours in our country to oppose a voluntary army and support conscription. One general argument is that a professional army (as opposed to a draft army) would attract mostly the lowest parts of society, unducated and unemployed people with no chances of socio-economic success, which would make the army a breeding ground for illiberal ideologies. In fact, the US army is often seen as an example for such a pool of 'white trash' and the like. Then on the other hand trashy Americans are probably less prone to be attracted by extremist ideologies than 'white trash' in Germany

I have to admit, I'm deeply tainted by what happened in Vietnam. The rich and middle class took refuge in the National Guard (Bush, Quayle), in colleges (me) or in Canada. For the most part, it was only the poorest Americans who got dragged off to fight.

[Ecthy]

Well, that's the opposite of what a draft is supposed to do. In that case you wouldn't have needed a draft, just increase pay! But then it might not have been the leadership's intention to only attract the lower class.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Lancer
Zkrib, we may desperately need more troops in a hot hurry! If we don't draft, what do we do? It takes 4 months just to teach the basics, so it might already be too late. What do you suggest?

I don't really have a silver-bullet answer.

My least worst suggestion would be to have the Iraqi government thank us for our help and then order us to have our combat troops out of their country by __x__ date.

That would "prove" to their folks that they are not our stooges and would free up our troops.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ecthy
BlackCat - the interpretation of gender emancipation is one unanswered question of our times. We should either turn it all back a bit and say Yes to the notion that women are, on average, naturally weaker than men OR do it properly and institute the same rights and obligations (read theory above) for both genders. And for all those creeps who "don't know their gender"/ "don't feel right in their body" and whatever.

Mainstream

Old gender model

Meddling in between with males being the losers of the day

Give me a battlion of women with PMS and I'll conquer the world. --If they don't kill me first.

[SlowwHand]

What it's past time for is mandatory service between high school and the world.
Either military or accepted alternative.

[Ecthy]

American teens should serve compulsory ecological years. Some German kids do that. a weird bunch.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ecthy
BlackCat - the interpretation of gender emancipation is one unanswered question of our times. We should either turn it all back a bit and say Yes to the notion that women are, on average, naturally weaker than men OR do it properly and institute the same rights and obligations (read theory above) for both genders. And for all those creeps who "don't know their gender"/ "don't feel right in their body" and whatever.

Mainstream

Old gender model

Meddling in between with males being the losers of the day

Well, we haven't exactly started drafting women here, but we have campaigns urgiing women to join and it has some impact. Most modern warfare doesn't require physical strength except amongst footsoldiers.

@Zkrib -

Edit : dammit - forgot to mention that our first female F16 pilot has entered service (nah, not draft, but that was considered a nogo earlier due to physical restraints)