Here You Go, Democrats. "Hillary has more than $22M in war chest"

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
I thought most "pro choice" people believed "it is just a bunch of cells", like a polyp, not like a baby.

This stance is increadibly easier to defend in Europe, where abortion can be performed up to a certain time (usually 2 to 3 monthes), where the embryo is not developed enough to actually be considered as a baby.

In the US, you are free to abort up to the day you give birth (though late voluntary abortions are extremely rare). So the "killing babies" rhethorics is stronger there, even among pro-choicers.

[SlowwHand]

Most places are hesitant to perform an abortion in the 3rd trimester.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Elok
Pro-lifers don't have it in for women,

By and large, this is incorrect. An equally accurate term for the pro-life movement is the anti-woman movement. They are overwhelmingly opposed to birth-control as well as abortion, even among married couples. Most tend to be anti-divorce. Many are opposed to women working outside the home. They seem to be more opposed to women having sex outside marriage, and focus most of their energies there, even if men are more likely to have sex outside marriage.

Outside the U.S., they want women to wear veils and have their external genitalia cut off. They think that women who dishonor the family should be killed. They burn widows.

I'm not really sure how much more anti-woman the pro-life movement can be.

[Kuciwalker]

Mark Warner

[Elok]

The fundy-evangelical nuts are a separate phenomenon which regrettably tends to overlap with the pro-life movement. Much like the majority of communists are atheists, but it is not fair to say that communism = atheism. Only the fundies aren't even a majority, just a very loud and obnoxious minority which appears larger than it really is because the moderate folks don't get as much press.

The majority of Americans disapprove of the current legal state of the abortion issue (don't have the figure, but last I checked it was around 60%; anybody know?). It's hard to say where PL ends and PC begins on the spectrum of opinion, but there aren't all that many zealots in the U.S., so please quit conflating the two groups.

Or, failing that, I am not a misogynist, and AFAIK neither is McCain, so at least don't throw that crap at either of us.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Elok
Pro-lifers don't have it in for women,

By and large, this is incorrect. An equally accurate term for the pro-life movement is the anti-woman movement. They are overwhelmingly opposed to birth-control as well as abortion, even among married couples. Most tend to be anti-divorce. Many are opposed to women working outside the home. They seem to be more opposed to women having sex outside marriage, and focus most of their energies there, even if men are more likely to have sex outside marriage.

Outside the U.S., they want women to wear veils and have their external genitalia cut off. They think that women who dishonor the family should be killed. They burn widows.

I'm not really sure how much more anti-woman the pro-life movement can be.

Way to demonize (wrongly) your opponents.

All prolifers I know aren't at all how you describe them.

JM
(prolife)

[chequita guevara]

That's why I didn't say all. However, it is largely true for: Catholics, Evangelicals, Muslims, etc.

Elok, most atheists, at least in the West, are not communists. Globally, it may be that most atheists are communists or socialists of some stripe. However, it is pretty much true for the pro-life movement in every local, that they intersect with those who think that the woman's place is in the home, to be subservient to their husband, "honorable" and not use contraception. That a significant minority doesn't feel this way doesn't mean that it isn't true.

[Ecthy]

He didn't say anything like that, he said the majority of commies are atheists. You do know some basic logics?

[SlowwHand]

Every dog is an animal, but not every animal is a dog.

All communists are dogs, sure. Still, the logic applies.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's why I didn't say all. However, it is largely true for: Catholics, Evangelicals, Muslims, etc.

You're full of ****.

[chequita guevara]

No, I'm not.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


You're full of ****.

Perhaps he lacks a sufficient quantity of bathrooms?

[Elok]

I told you, those whack-nuts are *not* the majority, just a very vocal minority. It's hard to scream a moderate and nuanced opinion at NARAL protesters, so the nutjobs get out and holler more, and hence get heard more. I admit that's a problem, but if the pro-life position were intrinsically misogynist we'd have died out a looooong time ago. Instead, we're quietly gaining on you in the polls.

[chequita guevara]

And I told you you're wrong. I'm not talking about the fools on the front lines, I'm talking the movements themselves.

[Elok]

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy, I guess, but spare the rest of us such gibberish. If "the movement" has any character independent of the people in it, that right there's the problem, never mind what said character is.