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  • Illegal immigration to Europe

    From the BBC

    Countries agree migration plans
    European and African countries have agreed a plan to tackle illegal immigration, at a specially-convened meeting in the Moroccan capital, Rabat.

    The proposals include joint monitoring of sea and border routes, and tackling poverty through aid.


    But human rights groups say they fear the focus will be on cracking down on illegal immigration rather than alleviating poverty.

    Some 10,000 migrants have arrived in Spain's Canary Islands this year alone.

    Officials from 57 countries attended the conference, which was triggered by the growing number of African migrants attempting to reach Europe.

    Co-ordinated approach

    "We have agreed to create and develop a close partnership between our respective countries to work together... with respect for the fundamental rights and dignity of migrants and refugees," the delegates said in a final declaration.

    Other plans include

    * a migration observatory to track people's movements
    * measures to increase awareness of the dangers of illegal migration
    * financial, aid and employment incentives

    Countries will also attempt to jointly target human trafficking networks through co-ordinated police and judicial efforts.

    The conference said the repatriation of illegal migrants would also be made easier, with clearer rules on how they should be treated to preserve their dignity.

    'Hundreds' killed

    The number of illegal migrants reaching Spain's Canary Islands this year is already double the total for 2005.

    Hundreds have also landed on Malta and the Italian island of Lampedusa.

    Most of the migrants are from West and Central Africa - Mali, Senegal, Ivory Coast and DR Congo.

    While thousands manage to reach European territory, many are killed after trying to make the journey in overcrowded and unsafe boats.

    The BBC's Alix Kroeger in Rabat says it is impossible to know how many have died in the attempt, but they are likely to number in the hundreds.



    Looks exactly like the Johanessburg conference on sustainable development. Great on paper, but I bet there won't be anything effective except police cooperation. And even then, the African polices will cooperate as far as they're not bribed (i.e. they'll tackle the migrants, but will do barely anything against organised trafficking).

    As to the fight against poverty, just let me bitterly
    What exactly has Europe done against poverty in Africa these past few years?
    - Repelled the favourable trade agreements, that made Europe buy some products in Africa, that are imported from Asia now.
    - Supported the IMF-sponsored reforms, which basically privatize education and healthcare, making the living conditions of the poor even more miserable
    - Encouraged educated Africans to come to Europe, and discouraged uneducated ones, making African countries pay for the education of elites they won't enjoy.
    - Devaluated the CFA Franc (indexed on the Franc, and now on the Euro) times hundred. A terrible economic catastrophe on the Senegalese, Ivorian and Malian economies. Notice these are 3 of the 4 countries where most African immigrants come from.

    Hypocrites
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

  • #2
    No ****.

    Question: Why the Hell isn't anyone posting on this?
    Answer: They suck.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #3
      Originally posted by SlowwHand
      Question: Why the Hell isn't anyone posting on this?
      Because the Euros are sleeping, and the Yanks can't imagine that some people might want to migrate to Europe, i.e. to a place that is not America
      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

      Comment


      • #4
        What are the numbers on illegal migrants to/in Europe? It wouldn't surprise me at all if its substantially higher than those to the US.

        Its good to see, though, that people are tackling the real issue. That is, poverty in the country of origin... whether or not, as you suggest, anything will come of it.

        I remember a few weeks ago, a migrant boat ended up over hear somewhere near Barbados. The entire crew had died as they got blown off route on their way to the Canary Islands.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Spiffor

          Because the Euros are sleeping, and the Yanks can't imagine that some people might want to migrate to Europe, i.e. to a place that is not America

          Americans dont want illegal immigration fool. Its called illegal cause it is, well, Illegal. Illegals are a huge headache here, hence the crackdown. We welcome legals with open arms.


          You guys forgot to have babies. According to Wiki, In 2060 63% of the current european population will not exist. Woohoo contraception

          Better bring em all in!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
            Its good to see, though, that people are tackling the real issue. That is, poverty in the country of origin... whether or not, as you suggest, anything will come of it.
            Well, don't forget that the recent years in Europe were all about limiting immigration. Even intra-European immigration is limited, as the New Members aren't full-fledged part of the treaty that institutes freedom of movement (the Shengen agreement).

            European governments have long tried to associate third world government to help fight against illegal immigration. The concentration camps in Lybia, and the despicable treatment of illegal immigrants in Morocco, are examples of that. Also, most European countries have harsher migration policies than before (with the notable exception of Ireland).

            There were two items in this summit that weren't about punishment: human dignity and poverty.

            Human dignity has come to the audience awareness after the Ceuta and Melilla debacle. Hundreds of aspiring illegal immigrants have rushed the walls of the two Spanish cities (located at the northern tip of the African continent in Morocco) simultaneously. The spanish shot, and killed a few of them.

            However, the worst of the kill wasn't done directly by the Spanish, but by the Moroccans. The Moroccans wanted to please, by removing the aspiring illegal immigrants. Thus, they captured them, sent them by car in the Sahara, and left them without supplies to go back to Mali and further. Hundreds died like that.

            As to poverty, well, there are two reasons why it's in:
            1. It's ****ing obvious that, in impoverished countries, some people will do just anything to go to an eldorado. And no matter the barriers, many will succeed. And depending on the barriers, many will die trying. If we don't want too much illegal immigration, and if we don't want oo much blood on our hands at the same time, tackling poverty is a big duh.

            2. Anti-immigration policies are very unpopular in Africa, and the local leaders need some bone to appease the masses at home. For example, Sarkozy received a hostile welcome last time he went to Mali, despite the country generally being very welcoming of foreign visitors. By adding something about poverty, the African leaders can make police agreements with Europe (and thus help punish aspiring illegal immigrants), and can hope that there won't be unrest.

            In any case, I really doubt the development part will be anything but empty phrases. To believe otherwise, after Johanessburg, would be terribly gullible.
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

            Comment


            • #7
              Illegal immigration to Europe?

              That must be a typo.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #8
                More news. From the BBC

                EU plans emergency border squads
                A plan to create rapid reaction teams of border guards to deal with European Union immigration crises has been unveiled by the European Commission.

                The teams would be assembled by the EU border security agency, Frontex, from lists of experts in member states.

                The plan would help the EU respond to appeals for assistance, such as Spain's request in May for help dealing with African migrants in the Canary Islands.

                EU states promised ships and aircraft but the patrols have yet to start.

                The EU's Justice Commissioner, Franco Frattini, said four ships and two aircraft from EU member states had already arrived in the Canary Islands and that he was confident the operation would begin next week.

                Now it is the Canary Islands, tomorrow will be the case of Malta, because we are about to launch another European mission to patrol the Mediterranean
                Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini
                He said the EU was also planning an operation to patrol the Mediterranean, near the coast of Malta.

                Both countries say they have been overwhelmed by an influx of migrants. They are currently engaged in a standoff with Spain over a group of Africans on a Spanish trawler, which neither country wants to accept.

                Own uniforms

                The proposals approved by the European Commission on Wednesday say it would be up to each member state to decide whether to make experts available.

                Mr Frattini said the aim would be to have a pool of 250 or 300 ready to be called up in emergencies, including experts in first aid, translation, risk assessment and the identification of people.

                All border guards would wear their own national uniforms - with an armband identifying them as members of a joint EU rapid reaction team - but would be temporarily under the control of the host state.

                The Commission says that planning such an operation is currently complicated by a muddle of different national laws in each member state governing what tasks foreign border guards can fulfil.

                It says rapid reaction teams should be able to patrol the border, and to check and stamp the travel documents of anyone crossing it.

                Frontex would bear the cost of the operation, though the members of the rapid reaction team would continue to receive their normal salary from their own member state.

                Registration

                Missions would be sent to the crisis area within 10 days of a request being made.

                The Commission also approved on Wednesday a list of priority policies to tackle illegal immigration.

                These include a new system for registering the arrival and departure of non-EU citizens visiting the EU, making it easier to verify whether someone has "overstayed" his or her visa.

                Mr Frattini said he would also be studying whether to legislate to "harmonise" sentences in member states for people caught employing illegal immigrants.

                The commission also says it will prioritise action against illegal trafficking, and further deals with third countries to allow migrants to be returned to their point of departure for the EU.
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Illegal Syrian immigration to Europe
                  "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                  I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                  Middle East!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Spiffor, are you familiar with Steve Sailer's articles?

                    BTW., it would be interesting to see for how many countries in Europe it holds that most crime is commited by immigrants/foreigners.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VetLegion
                      Spiffor, are you familiar with Steve Sailer's articles?
                      Nope

                      BTW., it would be interesting to see for how many countries in Europe it holds that most crime is commited by immigrants/foreigners.
                      Indeed. But keep in mind that many countries have different definitions of "foreigners"
                      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was riding on a bus in Zurich with my gf when a bunch of brown people got on, looked like a family, and started playing guitar and singing. I looked at my gf who said 'no give dem nottig'. When we arrived at the stop a bunch of people got off but they got nottig.
                        Long time member @ Apolyton
                        Civilization player since the dawn of time

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Illegal immigration to Europe

                          Originally posted by Spiffor
                          - Supported the IMF-sponsored reforms, which basically privatize education and healthcare, making the living conditions of the poor even more miserable

                          Are you referring to the IMF debt relief initiative, or the poverty reduction and growth initiatives.

                          I note you also dont mention world bank activities, historically more focused on development than the IMF, whose primary job is to manage currency relationships and debt.

                          Also theres an African Dev Bank, IIUC, to which I think the EU contributes, and I was under the impression the EU had its own direct aid to Africa.

                          heres some info on the FTI, the fast track initiative to reform and improve education in Africa. I note several references to the abolition of school fees in african countries.

                          With 189 member countries, the World Bank Group is a unique global partnership fighting poverty worldwide through sustainable solutions.


                          sorry, the link doesnt seem to work, but the info is on the world bank site.
                          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Re: Illegal immigration to Europe

                            Originally posted by lord of the mark
                            Are you referring to the IMF debt relief initiative, or the poverty reduction and growth initiatives.
                            Debt relief initiative.
                            To get it, there is one clause on which the IMF doesn't expand too much in its website, i.e. "public expenditure management."
                            The targeted countries are to cut on public expenditure, so that it can be realistic according to the "macroeconomic constraints".
                            Now, these buzzwords are all nice, but let's see what kind of expanses the African countries:
                            - military: already small in peaceful countries, and threatened countries won't cut on it.
                            - education.
                            - healthcare. It is especially expansive for African budgets.
                            - development funds.
                            - other kinds of social aid
                            - civil servant salaries
                            - secret funds (unlikely, given the widespread corruption)

                            I note you also dont mention world bank activities, historically more focused on development than the IMF, whose primary job is to manage currency relationships and debt.

                            Also theres an African Dev Bank, IIUC, to which I think the EU contributes, and I was under the impression the EU had its own direct aid to Africa.

                            I have to leave soon, so I can't find a source, but I heard repeatedly that the proportion of aid in western GDP has been sinking for years.

                            heres some info on the FTI, the fast track initiative to reform and improve education in Africa. I note several references to the abolition of school fees in african countries.

                            The world bank itself admits (in diplomatic terms) that the money it recieves is largely insufficient.
                            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I was riding on a bus in Zurich with my gf
                              Quit cheating on your wife, Lancer.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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