Yay European fascism!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Geronimo
this is harmless. The support fascism gets from such politicians stems entirely from their visceral hatred of communism. The fundamentals of fascism itself are not going to be adopted by such people.

I'm as concerned by this as I was by there being communists in Italy and France in the '70's.

I'm fairly sure the EU can look after itself.

If they can't, we've got really large problems.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I'm as concerned by this as I was by there being communists in Italy and France in the '70's.

I'm fairly sure the EU can look after itself.

If they can't, we've got really large problems.

Are any of the people making the controversial statements actually fascists themselves?

If not it's all smoke and no fire.

It's like expecting slavery to return to the US south because of the deep and widespread admiration and sympathy found there for the formation and conduct of the confederacy.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Are any of the people making the controversial statements actually fascists themselves?

If not it's all smoke and no fire.

I'm not sure a statement like that, coming from a leading politician in a country with a sizeable Roma minority, constitutes "smoke and no fire":

"There's no such thing as Roma, only gypsies who steal, rob and plunder."

[Al B. Sure!]

umm... don't gypsies steal, rob, and plunder? Isn't it like a profession for them?

[Drake Tungsten]

European fascism means we have to save your asses again

Word, and I'm too old to be doing that **** again...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Geronimo
this is harmless. The support fascism gets from such politicians stems entirely from their visceral hatred of communism. The fundamentals of fascism itself are not going to be adopted by such people.

Bingo. Wake me up when a dictator seizes power in Poland. I'm not sure Fascist Democracy has ever been contemplated... or if it has, then it must have been under the influence of some heavy drugs .

[alva]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

European fascism means we have to save your asses again

Word, and I'm too old to be doing that **** again...

Pffff, you got one, so why can't we.

[lord of the mark]

to be fair, Francoism, though dictatorial, has a complex relationship with "fascism". Franco limited the power of the falangist party, and was in some ways more of a traditional 19th c style authoritarian. This came up right here, IIRC, when we were discussing "Islamofascism" and Paul Bermans use of that term. Bermans assertion that "fascism" varies in its focus by society, and so could in some societies focus more on religion than on "nationalism", used the case of Spain as a key example. IIRC some folks denied that Spain was meaningfully fascist.


It should be noted that Spain remained neutral in WW2, and so was never at war with Poland. Spain welcomed Sephardic Jewish refugees from Nazi occupied Europe.

[lord of the mark]

'The Socialist group has suspended the Slovak Social Democrats and probably will kick them out in the autumn because they've gone into coalition with the Slovak National Party, the SNS. Their leader is quoted as saying things like: "Let's all get in tanks and go and flatten Budapest," and, "There's no such thing as Roma, only gypsies who steal, rob and plunder."'


Does the Socialist group similarly monitor the statements of the more hardline communists in the Olive Tree coalition? (note well: I am NOT at all defending the SNS - but looking more at the Slovak Social Democrats - if they are too be judged by their coalition partners, that would seem to be something that should apply as well to both ends)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor



I'm not sure a statement like that, coming from a leading politician in a country with a sizeable Roma minority, constitutes "smoke and no fire":

"There's no such thing as Roma, only gypsies who steal, rob and plunder."

proves hes a racist, not a fascist.

[Provost Harrison]

And since when has anyone taken any notice of Poland...if they cause any trouble, we'll just get Germany on them

[snoopy369]

Fascism is one of those words that gets used to denote 'governments we don't like' ... it's lost a lot of its original, precise meaning.

After all, if all it took to be fascist were to have a charismatic leader and a military-run government, then wouldn't most of the pre-1800 world have been fascist (when their leaders were charismatic, which is a sometimes thing of course)

Fascism had a more precise definition at one point.

[Thorgal]

to be fair, Francoism, though dictatorial, has a complex relationship with "fascism". Franco limited the power of the falangist party, and was in some ways more of a traditional 19th c style authoritarian. This came up right here, IIRC, when we were discussing "Islamofascism" and Paul Bermans use of that term. Bermans assertion that "fascism" varies in its focus by society, and so could in some societies focus more on religion than on "nationalism", used the case of Spain as a key example. IIRC some folks denied that Spain was meaningfully fascist.


It should be noted that Spain remained neutral in WW2, and so was never at war with Poland. Spain welcomed Sephardic Jewish refugees from Nazi occupied Europe.

Well, while officialy Spain was not at war, in the practice Spain did not remain neutral along WW2, indeed it openly supported nazi Germany. However it is arguable if it was because convictions or convenience.
The fact is that convinced pro-nazis known as germanophiles were abundant in Franco´s government specially among the most rabid fascists, ahead of all them was precisely the minister of foreign affairs along ww2 , Serrano Suñer.

Respecting to the jews, it is true that spanish officials helped many jews to scape from nazi occupied countries however it seems that it was mostly becuase personal initiative and that Franco was mainly indifferent towards the jews. He didnt care to let the jews refugees transiting across Spain towards Portugal and then America, however he did not like to see jews staying in Spain. Dont forget he was a big admirer of the Catholic Kings who definitively eradicated the big jew comunity living Spain in the 15th century.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Does the Socialist group similarly monitor the statements of the more hardline communists in the Olive Tree coalition?

If the leader of the Italian communist party makes a declaration on par with what I quoted, you bet the European Socialists would try to pressure Prodi.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
to be fair, Francoism, though dictatorial, has a complex relationship with "fascism". Franco limited the power of the falangist party, and was in some ways more of a traditional 19th c style authoritarian.

Contemporaries had no problem with the definition of Franco's regime as fascist. Mussolini at least didn't, and he should know. Regarding the dominating anti-communism you can't reduce the system to a 19th century style rule.

It should be noted that Spain remained neutral in WW2, and so was never at war with Poland. Spain welcomed Sephardic Jewish refugees from Nazi occupied Europe.

No, it didn't. It made available many visa for them to get through Spain, that's true, yet few were allowed to stay. Most were sent off to other countries. And Franco didn't do much to comply with Hitler's ultimatum to renaturalize Spanish Jews who'd otherwise be treated like all others. Well, however, saving some 20000 jews still was the best thing Franco ever did.
The neutrality is seen by many historians rather as a coincidence than as a strategy. Franco was ready to enter the war on Germany's side on more than one occasion.