One Georgia Teacher's Battle to Teach Evolution

[Arrian]

Most of it, yeah, although the article mentions her students objecting in class.

I can't remember *anyone* in my school objecting to evolution, including the kids who went to "religious school" after classes once or twice a week (memory hazy).

But hey, CT is not Georgia. I have a co-worker from Georgia who says she came north to escape precisely this sort of ****.

-Arrian

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Sigh...

What bothers me, are the questions the principal asks about religion. Those are blatantly illegal, and should be more than enough cause to justify both firing the principal and a significant monetary settlement on the teacher's part.

They're not nearly "blatantly illegal" - first, you almost certainly have different standards for public agency and state employment in Georgia - most states differentiate between public and private employment. Second, the questions/statements by the principle were not in an employment screening context, which is an entirely different issue. Third, the questions/statements were not uttered in any way connected to an adverse employment action. Fourth, it's doubtful that the nature, frequency and context of those utterances was sufficient to create a hostile environment in the workplace, as construed by case law. For a teacher, whiny parents with weird views are the norm, and responding to those is a normal part of the work environment, so the principal's comments have to be taken alone rather than added to permissible complaints by parents.

Most likely, the principal, as a public employee, is not fully an at will employee and has some protections from discharge and is subject to a defined disciplinary process. At most a warning and a little "guidance" would be all that would be allowable.

The teacher did not suffer an adverse employment action, nor was she subjected to an atmosphere sufficiently "hostile and oppressive" to justify an emotional distress claim, so nope, no free money to be had there.



Harrassment is wrong, and I absolutely believe that she should have been protected by her supervisors, but if you have a job that involves dealing with the public, there will always be a few crazy people who harrass you. You shouldn't have to put up with it from your supervisors, though. That's just plain wrong. [/QUOTE]

[snoopy369]

'I accept evolution in most things but if they ever say God wasn't involved I couldn't accept that. I want you to say that, Pat.'

Although she wasn't fired as a result, harrassment doesn't have to involve firing... she HAS left her job as a result of the stress caused, albeit I'd say probably more because of the parents.

However, that quote to me is an implicit statement of a religious belief being a job requirement... he told her that he wanted her to say that she followed his religious belief, in a work context. The fact that it didn't proceed to her being terminated is indeed what kept it from being actually litigated ... but the law protects you from harrassment as well as actual firing, or is intended to in any event. If the principal actually said this, he SHOULD be fired by the school district.

At will, of course not, but violating the law in reference to employment law has got to be sufficient grounds for dismissal, particularly in a position that as a significant element of its job description is hiring.

nor was she subjected to an atmosphere sufficiently "hostile and oppressive" to justify an emotional distress claim, so nope, no free money to be had there.

I'd argue with that Though you're probably right that there is little enough actual damage done, if it were only this one statement. I wonder, though, if it were only the one ...

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Religion has no place (being taught) in Public Schools. Public Schools should of course allow expression as much as possible (which includes expression of the teachers).

Science should be taught.

Jon Miller
(a religionist)

I agree entirely. Sunday schools should be brought back if parents want their children to be taught religion. The French system seems a good idea - philosophy is taught, and it covers all of the major religions alongside metaphysics, etc. The religious parents might then kick up a stink about their children having to learn about other religions, but this is a win-win: "let them choose", or "know thy enemy".

[Japher]

what's the difference between religion being taught in a philosophy course and theology

[Stuie]

Re: One Georgia Teacher's Battle to Teach Evolution

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Though what really gets me is the parent saying they should teach college ready stuff... but evolution isn't included in that?! WTF?!

Liberty University, anyone?

[ajbera]

'I accept evolution in most things but if they ever say God wasn't involved I couldn't accept that. I want you to say that, Pat.'

Besides all the other piles of ignorance one has to contend with, why the f*ck do some people think it's either one or the other - either you believe in God or you believe in evolution? Huge numbers (probably a majority) of biologists and other believers in evolution also believe in God. Darwin was a devout Christian. The Catholic Church has said evolution is not inconsistent with it's teachings. The only disconnect between the two concepts is in the addled brains of clueless adherents.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Hell, this amazes me. I went to high school in Utah. Which makes even Texas seem a liberal hotbed.

I can honestly say that, while going to school, I never heard of creationism, it was all evolution.

ACK!

When did you go to school?

It looks to me (as an outsider) that the new widespread partly successful attacks on evolution just startetd during the second half of the 90s (or even later) which probably has something to do with the further development of ID as a counter theory to evolution whereas before (during the 80s) the fundamentalist christian movement in the US hadn´t the power it has today and there were only few unsuccessful actions where individual parents tried to force schools to teach creationism.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Although she wasn't fired as a result, harrassment doesn't have to involve firing... she HAS left her job as a result of the stress caused, albeit I'd say probably more because of the parents.

However, that quote to me is an implicit statement of a religious belief being a job requirement... he told her that he wanted her to say that she followed his religious belief, in a work context. The fact that it didn't proceed to her being terminated is indeed what kept it from being actually litigated ... but the law protects you from harrassment as well as actual firing, or is intended to in any event. If the principal actually said this, he SHOULD be fired by the school district.

I don't recall the case off the top of my head (IIRC, United Parcel Service was the original defendant), but SCOTUS has ruled in Federal discrimination claims that even having a written warning entered into an employee's personnel file, in a warning process that could ultimately lead to termination, was not in and of itself an adverse employment action, unless there was a change in the material conditions of employment directly resulting from the warning.

At will, of course not, but violating the law in reference to employment law has got to be sufficient grounds for dismissal, particularly in a position that as a significant element of its job description is hiring.

I'm sure he would argue that he was just trying to smooth things over to get some riled up parents off both their asses.

I'd argue with that Though you're probably right that there is little enough actual damage done, if it were only this one statement. I wonder, though, if it were only the one ...

Probably not - but that's part of the whole enforcement gap between what employers should do in compliance with the law, and what misconduct rises to the level that an employee can successfully get a claim adjudicated through appeals, assuming (as likely in a case like this in that part of the US) you get past jury conservatism, if not outright nullification, at trial.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Spiffor

One parent asked how money could be wasted on a subject like evolution: "As budget cuts continuously chip away at our children's future of a good, quality college-ready education," she wrote, "I would think there would be more educational, more worthwhile and certainly more factual learning that could be taught."

The US never ceases to amaze

Of all of the freedoms enjoyed by U.S. citizens, none is exercised more often than the freedom to be stupid.

[Victor Galis]

I was fairly shocked by this. I then subsequently shocked that one of my Republican friends (er... I suppose I should say my Republican friend, because he's the only one ) defended the actions of the officials involved, including Kathy Cox's attempt to remove the word evolution from the curiculum. I realized he was willing to sell his soul to make the party win, but it's still shocking at times.

[pchang]

That's one of the reasons I left

I wanted to make sure I was out of Georgia before my boy started school.

[Dinner]

That administrator should have been fired and lost all pension rights for attempting to bring his religion into the work place in such a way.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Because teachers and principals can easily get fired in US states...

[Dinner]

I didn't say it would happen. I said it should happen.