Surgeon chap says secondhand smoke bad

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wezil

Ming answered this nicely.

Yes, it was nice. Wrong...but nice.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wezil


If I simultaneously get to stop paying the 'sin' taxes my government charges I would have made that choice. My taxes paid compounded over the last 25+ years would more than cover your $30K. I'm a net contributor to the system. (Was actually, I no longer pay cig taxes).

So, you are saying you paid $30,000 dollars in cigarette tax?

[Wezil]

There is NO proof that ALL smokers will suffer ailments associated with smoking. Your argument is weak.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by PLATO


So, you are saying you paid $30,000 dollars in cigarette tax?

Compounded over the last 25+ years - absolutely. Cig taxes in this country have been obscene for a very long time.

Edit - I opted out of the taxes about 2 years ago.

I currently pay $1.50 per pack. retail price is about $8.00. You do the math for a 1-2 packs a day over 26 years.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by PLATO


No! The ecnomic impact to society is the same issue in a different form!

I just caused your health insurance premium to be some small amout higher. Are you happy with that?

Jesus H. Christ. That argument could apply to ANY RISKY BEHAVIOR, which is why most sane people stop short of it. We spread the risk. Yes, ultimately this means the person who eats right, excercises, doesn't drink, smoke, or use drugs, gets enough sleep, doesn't play high-impact sports, etc. will pay more because of fat, drunk smokers.

But there are very few such people who live in glassless houses.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Wezil


Compounded over the last 25+ years - absolutely. Cig taxes in this country have been obscene for a very long time.

Edit - I opted out of the taxes about 2 years ago.

I currently pay $1.50 per pack. retail price is about $8.00. You do the math for a 1-2 packs a day over 26 years.

Ahh, the wonders of the internet. Romania, by any chance?

-Arrian

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wezil
There is NO proof that ALL smokers will suffer ailments associated with smoking. Your argument is weak.

Oh yes there is. Better look again. It is a FACT that Nicotine causes health degradation from the first puff. It is a FACT that if you smoke long enough that you WILL develop COPD. Heart Disease is not quite so definitive, but there is strong evidence that the likelyhood of incurring CAD is very high overtime.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Arrian


Jesus H. Christ. That argument could apply to ANY RISKY BEHAVIOR, which is why most sane people stop short of it. We spread the risk. Yes, ultimately this means the person who eats right, excercises, doesn't drink, smoke, or use drugs, gets enough sleep, doesn't play high-impact sports, etc. will pay more because of fat, drunk smokers.

But there are very few such people who live in glassless houses.

-Arrian

Risk is fine and what insurance is for. Smoking is a certianty and therefore should not even be an insurable item!

[Arrian]

So is obesity. NO CHEESYPOOFS FOR YOU!

We discourage this behavior already, in the form of those "obscene" cig taxes Wezil mentioned. I'm cool with that, and was when I was paying said taxes. I'm not cool with an outright ban, sorry.

-Arrian

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Arrian


Ahh, the wonders of the internet. Romania, by any chance?

-Arrian

Natives actually. $15 a carton (10 packs).

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wezil


Compounded over the last 25+ years - absolutely. Cig taxes in this country have been obscene for a very long time.

Edit - I opted out of the taxes about 2 years ago.

I currently pay $1.50 per pack. retail price is about $8.00. You do the math for a 1-2 packs a day over 26 years.

1.5 X 365 = 547.50

547.50 X 26 = 14,235

Yep...and that's with an enormous tax of $1.50/pack

Looks like that leaves you about $16,000 in cash you would have eventually owed society.


Not to mention the productivity loss if you had died

[Arrian]

Ah. Buddy of mine gets his from Romania or Moldavia or somesuch. He's quittin' soon too, though. He has motivation now (he's gonna be a dad come October).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by PLATO


1.5 X 365 = 547.50

547.50 X 26 = 14,235

Yep...and that's with an enormous tax of $1.50/pack

Looks like that leaves you about $16,000 in cash you would have eventually owed society.


Not to mention the productivity loss if you had died

No, the tax is more like 6.50 a pack. He's paying $1.50 per pack now, but if you buy them in a normal store, you pay ~$8. So your math is way off.

edit: I dunno if the full 6.50 is tax, though. Some of it could just be markup.

-Arrian

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO


There is no proof that ALL obese people WILL have health problems...There is no proof that ALL people who don't exercise WILL have health problems...there is no proof that ALL people who drive to fast WILL harm themselves. Excessive alcohol consumption on a regular basis I'll grant ya . Nicotine use WILL cause health problems...it is simply a matter of time. Why would society want to incure a definite cost? If the matter is open to possibility, then we must come down on the side of personal freedom. If it is a definite, like smoking, then we must act to protect the interest of society as a whole. Ban smoking Now!

By the way... it's not the nicotine that causes health problems... it's all the crap that comes in the smoke

And no, not all people who smoke will have health problems related to their smoking. Not all smokers die from causes due to their smoking... And what about social smokers... those people that have occasional smokes when they are out partying... walking down the streets of Chicago on a regular basis and inhaling fumes from buses and cars is more likely to cause you health problems than smoking an occasional cig...

Actually... there is no real proof that smoking causes cancer. I'm not denying that it does or doesn't... but you are implying that there is proof that if you smoke you will have health related problems... ignoring that some smokers (mostly the light users) may never have a smoke related medical problem.

There is just as much proof that fast food is bad for you... that riding a motorcyle without a helmet is bad for you... the drinking is bad for you...

If you want to ban one for health reasons... you have to ban them all.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by PLATO


1.5 X 365 = 547.50

Your starting assumption is wrong. $1.50 tax! WTF? What part of the math ($8.00 - $1.50) do you have trouble with?

547.50 X 26 = 14,235

Why does my money in government hands for a quarter century not earn any interest. Was I going to put it under my mattress? Be honest in your calculations.

Yep...and that's with an enormous tax of $1.50/pack

Looks like that leaves you about $16,000 in cash you would have eventually owed society.

Redo your faulty math.

Not to mention the productivity loss if you had died

I don't owe the society my body (hence our basic disagreement).