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  • Indian nationalist party bans Humpty Dumpty.

    From public schools any way claiming that the popular English children's rhyme is insufficiently patriotic for Indian children to be taught in school.

    Humpty Dumpty ruled 'too Western'

    It's goodbye to Baa Baa Black Sheep and Humpty Dumpty for children in primary schools in a central Indian state.

    The Madhya Pradesh government has banned the teaching of English nursery rhymes in primary schools to "reduce Western influence" on children.

    Indian rhymes will now replace their popular English counterparts.

    "There is no need for English rhymes when there are Indian rhymes to infuse patriotism in children," says state education minister Narrotam Mishra.

    He has asked government primary schools from now on to teach Indian rhymes and tales from the life of Ahilya Bai, the legendary ruler credited with building a number of leading temples in India.

    "We want our children to have value education in local colour," Mr Mishra was quoted as saying by the Hindustan Times newspaper.

    'Churlish'

    Many teachers and parents say they are unhappy with the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-run state government's move.

    "They were melodious rhymes and children love to recite them as much as they love to recite Indian rhymes," Renu, a school teacher, told the BBC.

    "Seeing everything in the light of native and foreign, ours and theirs, is not always good," added a parent.

    The BBC's Faisal Mohammad Ali in Bhopal says the decision to drop English rhymes is being seen as part of the BJP's efforts to "nationalise" education and press for Hindu thoughts and values in the syllabus.

    Leading academician Zamiruddin told the Hindustan Times that the decision was "churlish and thoughtless" unless the government replaced the rhymes with equally popular and easy-to-learn Indian ones.

    Private schools are unaffected by the move - and of course nobody can stop the children reciting English rhymes away from state school classrooms, our correspondent says.

    'Controversial'

    English nursery rhymes have been the subject of many controversies around the world in recent years.

    In 2000, education chiefs at Birmingham City Council in the UK published guidelines warning that the rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it was "racially offensive".

    The guidelines were dropped after black parents condemned the advice as ridiculous.

    Three years ago, tongue-in-cheek Canadian researchers found that some nursery rhymes send dangerously inaccurate messages to young listeners.

    They were concerned that characters in popular rhymes suffer major injuries without receiving proper treatment.

    The characters include Humpty Dumpty, who had a great fall, and Jack and Jill, who tumbled down a hill.

    A similar study by British doctors found nursery rhymes expose children to far more violent incidents than an average evening watching TV.
    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    What about The 3 Stooges?
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #3
      Retarded decision . Why not have both rhymes , Indian as well as English ? Sadly , I live in Madhya Pradesh ( but I hadn't heard of this - it didn't make the news here ) .

      Let me clarify a bit here . This decision only affects schools following the Madhya Pradesh education board . Centrally affiliated schools , and private schools in the state ( which comprise the bulk of good schools ) will not be affected by this decision ( thank god for that ) .

      The BJP , as far as I know , is out to Indianise ( and not , as is commonly misperceived , Hinduise ) everything they touch - which is not always a good thing , specially when done in such a retarded manner .

      And the article has grossly misrepresented Ahilya Bai . She is respected for being a great ruler , not for builting temples ( if you ask anybody on the street what her achievements were , temples will probably not figure on the list at all ) .

      The thread title is also a bit wrong - nobody has banned Humpty Dumpty , they have just replaced him ( there is no restriction as such on children learning the rhyme , as the title seems to suggest ) .

      But I agree on the Jack and Jill thing , knowing the history of that rhyme .

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      • #4
        The word ban was used since it would be banned from public schools in at least one Indian state. People can still buy it on the open market but it will be removed from public schools.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          "There is no need for English rhymes when there are Indian rhymes to infuse patriotism in children," says state education minister Narrotam Mishra.
          School is obviously an institution created for the purpose of catalyzing patriotism. That's really retarded, just like aneeshm says.
          "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
          "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wernazuma III
            School is obviously an institution created for the purpose of catalyzing patriotism.
            Of course it is




            The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Oerdin
              The word ban was used since it would be banned from public schools in at least one Indian state. People can still buy it on the open market but it will be removed from public schools.
              Thankfully , public schools of the state board of Madhya Pradesh are irrelevant . Private schools are the real schools in India . And only public schools affiliated with the state board ( which are few - most are affiliated with the central board ) will be affected by this ( as I have said before ) retarded decision . Why can not both rhymes co-exist ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wernazuma III


                School is obviously an institution created for the purpose of catalyzing patriotism. That's really retarded, just like aneeshm says.
                Our cultural values differ on this . I called the decision retarded , not the inspiration behind it . In India , 97 % of the people are proud of being Indians . When it comes to partiotism , even private schools go all the way to infuse it ( and we need it - India is a very diverse country , and without patriotism holding us together , we would have by now split into a number of states ) .

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                • #9
                  Humpty Dumpty is a moron. Come on man! You're a freaking egg, don't sit on a wall! It's just stupid! It's like ridding a motorcycle without a helmet! Heck you wear a helmet when you play football! Why not when you sit up on a high wall!?

                  And then those stupid kingsmen! What kind of idiots can't put a giant egg back together? I can understand the yoke, but the shell?!
                  Monkey!!!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oerdin
                    The word ban was used since it would be banned from public schools in at least one Indian state. People can still buy it on the open market but it will be removed from public schools.
                    HTF do you buy a nursury rhyme?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aneeshm


                      Our cultural values differ on this . I called the decision retarded , not the inspiration behind it . In India , 97 % of the people are proud of being Indians . When it comes to partiotism , even private schools go all the way to infuse it ( and we need it - India is a very diverse country , and without patriotism holding us together , we would have by now split into a number of states ) .
                      You need to follow the model of teh United States where we pride ourselves on teaching loathing of self and country couched in the mantle of intellectualism.
                      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                      • #12
                        In 2000, education chiefs at Birmingham City Council in the UK published guidelines warning that the rhyme Baa Baa Black Sheep should not be taught in schools because it was "racially offensive".
                        This is also interesting.
                        After reading the rhyme I wonder why it should be offensive?
                        Just because the sheep is black?
                        In this case isn´t it more offensive to forbid the rhyme for the reason of the hero in the rhyme being black?

                        Or are there statistical data which show that, because of teaching the rhyme in schools, the racially motivated crimes against black sheep have increased?
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                          HTF do you buy a nursury rhyme?
                          duh, it comes in a book of nursury rhymes. Typically with pictures to help keep the children's interest.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by aneeshm


                            Our cultural values differ on this . I called the decision retarded , not the inspiration behind it . In India , 97 % of the people are proud of being Indians . When it comes to partiotism , even private schools go all the way to infuse it ( and we need it - India is a very diverse country , and without patriotism holding us together , we would have by now split into a number of states ) .
                            I already thought we would agree on something.

                            Unconditional nationalism is a sickness.
                            "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                            "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Were these rhymes being recited in English or Hindi? Will the Indian rhymes replacing them be recited in Hindi or English? Here's a thought - save the English nursery rhymes for instruction in English and use the Indian rhymes for instruction in Hindi.
                              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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