Old Testiment Satan

[CrONoS]

If i'm right:

The name Mickaël mean: "Who is like God?"

When Mickaël hear about the pride of Lucifer, and he heard Lucifer saying he was like God.

Mickaël rise and say:"Who is like God?" God hear that and made Mickaël the general of the angels (That`s why it's Mickael who will lead the army of angels in the revelation) and named Mickael that way.

Edited:
Errors: army of God replaced by army of angels.

[Seeker]

Why does an omnipotent God need 'automata' or 'generals' or 'Hosts'?

...nevermind....I play Civ so I think I know the answer...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The serpent is just a critter tempting Eve. There's no expressed or implied connection between it and Satan.

What UR said, Whats more the association of serpent and Satan is something associated with Chrisitianity. Satan becomes the tempter of Christ and so is rewritten in Chrisitian Dogma as the tempter of mankind via taking the shape of a serpent in Eden.

[CrONoS]

... If we translate Lucifer "as the bringer of light". We can make a link with serpent who brings the knowledge of Good and Evil in the genesis. But I dont know if the link made is valid.

[chequita guevara]

The serpent actually represents the Mesopotamian fertility cults, whose preistesses generally used snakes as the symbols of wisdom.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by cronos_qc
Isaie 14,3 Isaie in english...???

Isaiah 14,3
Specially Isaiah 14,12

12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13. For thous hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the starts of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I wll be like the most high:

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to heII, to the sides of the pit:

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them is burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

[CrONoS]

@Joseph
I have 3-4 bible in my house, badly all in french; but I trust one of them more than the others one. Here what my Bible say, it differs from your translation, which is KJV.

Isaiah 14-12:
"Comment es-tu tombé des cieux,
astre brillant, fils de l'aurore"

I translated it to english:
"How art thou fallen from sky"
"brilliant star, son of the dawn?"

That`s why I said it doesn't referring directly to Lucifer.

In french, my Bible doesn't say Lucifer, but it is say: brilliant star.

[Berzerker]

Really, the snake story is just an origin myth explaining why snakes don't have legs.

There is an interesting quote from Jesus advising his followers: be wise like the Serpent and gentle like the Dove...

[Proteus_MST]

My german bible also doesn´t mention Lucifer:

"Wie bist Du vom Himmel gefallen,
Du schöner Morgenstern"

"How art thou fallen from heaven (or sky),
you beautiful morning star"

It also doesnt mention Hell in 12.15:

"Ja, hinunter zu den Toten fuhrest Du,
zur tiefsten Grube"

"Yes, down to the death you drove,
into the deepest pit"

And 20 mentions tombs of stone instead of burial:
"Du wirst nicht wie jene begraben werden die hinabfahren in eine steinerne Gruft; denn Du hast dein Land verderbt und ein Volk erschlagen. Man wird des Geschlechtes der Bösen nicht mehr gedenken."

"Thou won´t be buried like those who are laid down in a tomb of stone; as thou has spoiled thy land and slaughtered thy people. Noone will commemorate the lineage of the evil anymore."

[Last Conformist]

"Lucifer" is just Latin for "morning star".


My Swedish translation of Isaiah 14:12 reads as:

"Hur har du inte fallit från himmelen, du strålande morgonstjärna!"

Lit: How have you not fallen from heaven, you radiant morningstar!

[Bkeela]

It might be Christian tradition and the New Testament that asserts the Serpent is none other than Satan, but surely the concept was in circulation before the time of Christ.

There must have been some revisionist documentary or some Dan Brown like crap which has made everyone an expert on this subject.

[molly bloom]

The Genesis account has in fact two separate serpents, if you think about it- the ones which are part of the godly Creation, and which will strike Adam and Eve's descendants in the foot, and the tempter serpent (presumably outside of godly creation).

Note also that Adam was threatened with the death penalty for eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge:

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

King James Authorized Version

A close reading of the Old Testament by those allegedly god-fearing Christians so in favour of Ol' Sparky and the gas chamber and lethal injections should, therefore, serve to show the failure of the death penalty as a deterrent from bad behaviour. Adam and Eve get sentenced to hard labour instead....

Adam and Eve, not looking happy. Search for Masaccio- this is the censored version that shouldn't offend those of a delicate disposition who get fits of the vapours at world class Renaissance art with nude body parts in it:

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Bkeela
It might be Christian tradition and the New Testament that asserts the Serpent is none other than Satan, but surely the concept was in circulation before the time of Christ.

There must have been some revisionist documentary or some Dan Brown like crap which has made everyone an expert on this subject.

Looks like the jews also see in the serpent the physical manifestation of satan

http://www.torah.org/learning/integrity/legtostandon.html

SO it seems to be definitely Old Testimony-Stuff

[CrONoS]

@Molly Bloom

Wow! What a powerfull painting?

Who draws this painting? I take a guess with W. blake or K. Gibran?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by cronos_qc
@Molly Bloom

Wow! What a powerfull painting?

Who draws this painting? I take a guess with W. blake or K. Gibran?

Masaccio.


I daren't show the whole thing 'cos it shows Adam's penis, and Apolyton gets the screaming abdabs when classic examples of European culture are displayed in all their naked glory (I was banned for posting a painting by Courbet).