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  • #1

    Growing Oil

    http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2006/june/03/yehey/prov/20060603pro2.html
    The Manila Times is one of the leading national broadsheets in the Philippines. It is also one of the oldest, having been founded in 1898.


    So why don't we do what the Japanese are doing and grow our way out of the oil shortage?

    "Cruz said about 5,000 hectares of idle land in the town will be planted with tuba-tuba where oil can be extracted from its seeds. The company needs about 75,000 hectares for its tuba-tuba plantation, which could become productive after two to five years. "
    Long time member @ Apolyton
    Civilization player since the dawn of time
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  • #2
    Why?

    1) Big oil will kill it.
    2) Where and at what climate can these plants grow?
    3) Two to Five years before just being productive.
    4) Even longer before being profitable.
    Founder of The Glory of War, CHAMPIONS OF APOLYTON!!!
    '92 & '96 Perot, '00 & '04 Bush, '08 & '12 Obama, '16 Clinton, '20 Biden, '24 Harris

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    • #3
      AND, why deviate from efforts to reduce oil use?
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Donegeal

        4) Even longer before being profitable.
        Unless oil prices continue to rise.
        I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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        • #5
          Donegeal, big oil will kill it, that's right.

          Stuff grows in the tropics. In this case in the Philippines.

          Sloww, efforts to cut oil usage are not true efforts imo, just lip service.

          Tattila, in a way I hope oil does continue to rise in order to accomplish a true reduction in usage. Environment...

          Then again, we don't use our car alot and it's small and fairly fuel efficient.
          Long time member @ Apolyton
          Civilization player since the dawn of time

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          • #6
            We don't "grow" oil because it is currently more costly than getting it out of the ground. When that changes, we will grow it. There will be different crops for different climates. Sugar for alcohol in Brazil. Corn for alcohol in the US and maybe Canada. Tuba-Tuba for bio-diesel in the Philippines. Big Oil will not kill it. Big Oil will become it.
            “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

            ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pchang
              We don't "grow" oil because it is currently more costly than getting it out of the ground. When that changes, we will grow it. There will be different crops for different climates. Sugar for alcohol in Brazil. Corn for alcohol in the US and maybe Canada. Tuba-Tuba for bio-diesel in the Philippines. Big Oil will not kill it. Big Oil will become it.
              all true. And I might add that we already do grow oil in the sense that a significant fraction of the gas burned in this country is ethanol which was added to that gas.

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              • #8
                I think we should cancel all existing agricultural subsidies and to allow this politically impossible move to be made we should transfer all of them to subsidizing crops which are used to produce fuels. This should help the third world by making their agricultural exports more competative and help the first world by making it less dependant on oil imports.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Donegeal

                  1) Big oil will kill it.

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                  • #10
                    ....and way more energy will be expended in its production then you'll get out of it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vesayen
                      ....and way more energy will be expended in its production then you'll get out of it.
                      BS. Especially when you allow for custom tailored GM crops. Every claim that I've ever seen that more energy must be put in than you get out of it assumes nothing whatever is done to improve efficiency when you can drastically improve efficiency by a variety of means.

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                      • #12
                        how will big oil kill it? Lawsuits?

                        Anyway. big oil isn't really 'big oil'. "big oil" are refinery companies even more so than extraction industries. raw materials is just raw materials to them for the most part, whether it's crude oil, or plant matter or low grade coal.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pchang
                          We don't "grow" oil because it is currently more costly than getting it out of the ground. When that changes, we will grow it. There will be different crops for different climates. Sugar for alcohol in Brazil. Corn for alcohol in the US and maybe Canada. Tuba-Tuba for bio-diesel in the Philippines. Big Oil will not kill it. Big Oil will become it.

                          Very true. In D.C. there are long-standing contacts between the oil and ethanol industries. Contrary to popular belief the two industries are somewhat friendly. Moreover, the ethanol industry in the United States survives at the benifence of the major oil companies. If you are lucky enough to catch up with some of the oil industry's lobbyists around D.C., you might be able to crowbar some interesting stories on how some of the gentlemen's agreements on ethanol production were hammered out.

                          1) Big oil will kill it.
                          "Big Oil" will become "Big Ag". Expect your local Exxon or Chevron gas station to become ArcherDanielsExxon or ChevronTexacoMonsanto. The industry is waiting for the right time to jump in. If they wanted to kill it, they would've already. The ethanol industry is extremely fragile in the U.S.; if a major shock (i.e. Brazilian ethanol tariffs being lifted) occurs, the industry will fold.

                          I think we should cancel all existing agricultural subsidies and to allow this politically impossible move to be made we should transfer all of them to subsidizing crops which are used to produce fuels. This should help the third world by making their agricultural exports more competative and help the first world by making it less dependant on oil imports.
                          How does changing our dependence on petro from Middle Eastern oligarchies to dependence on corn/sugar from developing nations fix our problem of being dependent on energy imports?




                          Disclaimer: I work for lobbyists who have interests on both sides of this fight
                          If you look around and think everyone else is an *******, you're the *******.

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                          • #14
                            "ChevronTexacoMonsanto"


                            Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                            Do It Ourselves

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Geronimo


                              BS. Especially when you allow for custom tailored GM crops.
                              Which the eco-luddites won't let you have come hell or high water.

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