Anti-Semitism Rising Among Israeli Youth

[dannubis]

Spiffor just said that as far as xenofobia goes france doesn't seem to have a problem. Racism is the issue.

The jewish state is racist by its very definition, not only towards hostile neighbours (which is understandable), but towards their own people as well.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What does it have to do with not granting nationality to young Russians living in the country?
What does it have to do with granting an automatic right to nationality to every person that shares the right religion?

Spiffor, my dear. Did it ever occur to you that Canada can afford to be very liberal?

We have two neighbours, or maybe three. The US, the sea, and Russia. In that order.

There actually was a central American who rode a train from Mexico and forgot to get off. He ended up in Vancouver. The local population admired his gumption and adopted him. Various groups are paying to sponsor him through high school and as a new citizen of the country. The point is that he is a novelty.

Still, within Canada, if you do not speak French, forget being able to emigrate to Quebec. The GoQ maintains the right to vet migrants, and they require French be spoken before you can settle there as a prospective Canadian.

Even in Canada, our doors open, there are requirements of immigration in areas that are sensitive to demographic reality.

What part of this is hard to follow? What part of this is immoral?

Have you never heard of atheistic Jews? Is it simply religious? Or is it cultural?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by dannubis
Spiffor just said that as far as xenofobia goes france doesn't seem to have a problem. Racism is the issue.

That's a fine onion you're slicing there.

[Spiffor]

I'm not saying "be patient with France".

Racism is one of the main problems my country is facing, and I'm fighitng against it as a citizen and an activist.

However, I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where the institutions are universalist. The institutions of France don't see the country as a "white nation". And most citizens share this idea, at least on paper. Our racism is present, but it doesn't mirror our political culture. Just like the anti-Mexican bigotry (currently strong in the US) doesn't mirror the American political culture.

Israel is experiencing something different. Israel's survival as the Jewish State requires that the Jews are the clear majority of citizens, that the State is here to cater the needs of the Jews. The Goyim can be accepted (and even fully welcome) as long as their numbers don't threaten the state's jewishness. But should the Goyim become a fearsome demographic strength, the Jewish State might very well die.

This is why the Israeli political culture is so strong wrt demographics, and this is why all mainstream parties think about it. Israel officially defends a homogenity in its population.
France, just like the US, doesn't. Even though many members of our respective populations are bigoted.

[notyoueither]

This is a facinating argument.

You can be black and Jewish, and be welcomed in Israel.

You can be Christian and brown, and not welcome in the US or France.

Who has the problem?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Oh yes, Canada is soooo on the verge of a civil war.

It depends on the immigrants themselves. Israel wasnt on the verge of civil war either when it more than doubled it's population with Sefardic Jews in the early 50s or when the population increased by about 20% in the early 90s.

Why? Because all those immigrants were Jews who wanted to assimilate in Israel, who wanted to live in Israel out of reasons that were not purely economic. In short, they wanted to belong. They were willing to minimize the differences by giving up their languages and their customs.

That isnt so with the Arabs in Israel and this isnt so with the Muslims in France. Do the Algerians move to France because they feel French? Because they believe the share the heritage of Voltaire and Napoleon? No.
They want a good life without giving up large parts of their culture, without minimizing the differences which lead to friction.

[dannubis]

well, i just repeat what spiffor says, i don't have to agree with it...

but there is some truth in it:

for the past 1500 years mainland europe and arabia have been slugging things out. they came here, we kicked them out, we went there and got our butts handed to us.
This has caused for arabs to be our "natural enemies" generally speaking. it is practically engraved in our society and it is not always easy to let that prejudice go. i think that the many of the problems with the magreb communities are rooted here. we silmply seem to be more tolerant towards italians and spanish people then to the ones from the magreb countries.

note that i don't aproove of this however

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Have you never heard of atheistic Jews?

I am one. As are most of our Israeli posters.

Az once explained fairly well that atheistic Jews were still accepted in the group. Because Jewishness is something very particular: part religion, part ethnicity, part nationality (LOTM used to say a quote about how you can't define Israel with any of these words: the only word that can define Israel is "Israel").

And I don't see why you want to connect this nationality issue (i.e who has a right to nationality and who doesn't) with the hostile neighbours. This nationality matter has been at the core of Israel even before it was founded. Back when the Jews had to face oppression from the host populations, and not risks from hostile countries.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You can be black and Jewish, and be welcomed in Israel.

You can be Christian and brown, and not welcome in the US or France.

You can also be black and Jewish, and not being welcome by the Israeli people. It has happened quite a bit. The Israelis aren't immune to race-related bigotry.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I am one. As are most of our Israeli posters.

Az once explained fairly well that atheistic Jews were still accepted in the group. Because Jewishness is something very particular: part religion, part ethnicity, part nationality (LOTM used to say a quote about how you can't define Israel with any of these words: the only word that can define Israel is "Israel").

And I don't see why you want to connect this nationality issue (i.e who has a right to nationality and who doesn't) with the hostile neighbours. This nationality matter has been at the core of Israel even before it was founded. Back when the Jews had to face oppression from the host populations, and not risks from hostile countries.

How you could not be aware of the situation of the state when you consider the state's policies is rather bewildering to me.

Israel has a set of circumstances that are rather unique in the world.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Spiffor

You can also be black and Jewish, and not being welcome by the Israeli people. It has happened quite a bit. The Israelis aren't immune to race-related bigotry.

Might you want to correct and say 'some' Israeli people?

It seems to me that you are casting stones when your own house is made of glass.

[chequita guevara]

The Ethiopian Jews haven't found Israel very welcoming.