Kerry vs. Swift Boat Veterans

[Sava]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


He is a sore loser who has better things to do, then or now.

We make fun of the fact that not only is he doing this, but he's doing it long past the time when it would matter at all.

I don't disagree with most of what you say, however that doesn't mean that the Swift Boat asshats should get away with what they did. Who knows what impact they had on the election. Maybe some, maybe a lot, maybe very little. But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe their bull****. And lying asshats like them have no place in a political race. What they did was wrong and they should pay the penalty. I really wish someone other than Kerry would have taken care of this whole mess when it occurred so that Kerry "sore loser" status would not even be an issue, because it's comparable to putting the victim on trial in a criminal proceding.

Kerry's motives are irrelevant, IMO. I am looking only at these Swift Boat *******s and what they did. Because honestly, the whole crap about Kerry being a sore loser, those type of accusations are exactly the same kind of childish personal attacks that the Swift Boaters would use as a defense. It's irrelevant and it doesn't make what they did right.

Like I said, I wish there was some indepedent advocate that would monitor a high profile political race and take care of situations like this so that asshats like these Swift Boaters couldn't just spew their garbage and get away with it. Because the end result is, the loser of the race has to face idiotic accusations of "sore loser" when he tries to get any sort of justice for the wrongs that were committed against him.

Again, I don't know the impact the Swift Boaters had on the election. I don't think it's possible to measure it. But there are always going to be retards who believe that bull****.

Originally posted by TCO
It was definitely not a complete lie. I read the book in detail and several articles on the various allegations. Also talked directly with the Admiral and with Paul Galanti. The Washington Post had a very good article on the "no man left behind" where Kerry fled the scene when one boat was seriously damaged and then came back later. His behavior was the opposite of brave and he did not deserve the same award as the LT who crossed from his boat to the damaged boat to save it.

Oh, I don't know why I just quoted this. It's completely irrelevant to my point. Disregard this block of text.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


Fixed, bolding is to describe my infatuation with Ted, for some reason most of my posts are 75% about him now.

[Sava]

How can anyone not have an infatuation with Ted?

DON'T GET IT TWISTED

WORD UP

[Ted Striker]

Sikander was cute at first but now he's disturbing


In his eyes I may be "crazy" but I'm not the one stalking other people ROFL

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by TCO
Anyone want to get into specifics, let's bring it.

This from Factcheck.org about the Swifties' charge that Kerry chased a lone, wounded teenager in a loincloth carrying an unloader rocket launcher behind a hooch and shot him in the back.

We have updated our Aug. 6 article on the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ad to include two new accounts that surfaced Aug. 22. One supported Kerry's account of the actions for which he was awarded the Silver Star, and the other supported Kerry's account of receiving enemy fire during the rescue for which Kerry was awarded the Bronze Star.

The Silver Star section has been updated to include the following:

On Aug. 22 an officer who was present supported Kerry's version, breaking a 35-year silence. William B. Rood commanded another Swift Boat during the same operation and was awarded the Bronze Star himself for his role in attacking the Viet Cong ambushers. He said Kerry and he went ashore at the same time after being attacked by several Viet Cong onshore.
Rood said he was the only other officer present. Rood is now an editor on the metropolitan desk of the Chicago Tribune, which published his first-person account of the incident in its Sunday edition. Rood said he had refused all interviews about Kerry's war record, even from reporters for his own paper, until motivated to speak up because Kerry's critics are telling "stories I know to be untrue" and "their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Rood described two Viet Cong ambushes, both of them routed using a tactic devised by Kerry who was in tactical command of a three-boat operation. At the second ambush only the Rood and Kerry boats were attacked.

Rood: Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ.

With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby.

Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation.

Rood disputed an account of the incident given by John O'Neill in his book "Unfit for Command," which describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." Rood said, "I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore."



Also, the Bronze Star section has been updated to include the following:

On Aug. 22 the Washington Post quoted a new eyewitness in support of Kerry's version. The Post said it had independently contacted Wayne D. Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat directly behind Kerry's, and that Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47 assault rifles.

Langhofer: There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river.

BTW: I do love TCO's wild speculation that because Silver Star and Bronze Star winner Kerry was granted an honorable discharge...it must have been faked.

[Straybow]

No, it was something about the paper being dated six years after Kerry's discharge date. IIRC.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yep. His actions when in reserve status were enough to warrant that he did not deserve honorable discharge.

I'ld say the chances that Jimmy fixed his record so that he could pursue political office are quite high.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Sava
But there are always going to be retards who believe that bull****.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Umm why did you change your self quote from

But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe their bull****.

to

But there are always going to be some retards out there who believe that bull****.

?

I don't recall SBV's claiming Jimmy fixed his record, simply his conduct during Vietnam and the clearly documented and not in dispute actions after Vietnam (Paris negotiations, meeting with the North Vietnamese when expressly forbidden from doing so as an officer in the US armed forces, his fabricated statements in front of the Senate etc.)

TCO and I apparently believe his record was expunged when Jimmy decided it made sense to have an up and comer in the Democratic party. I don't recall SBV's making that claim. Its absolutely reasonable to think Nixon and Ford would have prevented his honorable discharge in light of his after war (and in my mind illegal and unbecoming an officer) activities.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Umm why did you change your self quote from

Actually... I didn't change it. Both sentences appear in my original post.

I R TEH REDUNDANT

and because I quoted the second version, containing "that", it makes no assumption as to what I think the SBV's claims are or aren't... I didn't read their crap... because I know enough about their claims to know that it is all a bunch of bull****.

and any conclusion you guys have based upon their claims, is also probably not anything close to reality... do I think Jimmy Carter would use presidential power to mess with Kerry's record regarding that incident knowing it would become an issue sometime in the future?

plz... go make a tinfoil hat

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sava
do I think Jimmy Carter would use presidential power to mess with Kerry's record regarding that incident knowing it would become an issue sometime in the future?

Considering no one was able to get access to those records even in the midst of a presidential campaign, I would suspect no one ever thought it possible of becoming an issue, save for the fact that Kerry being a huge Dumbass ran as a war hero it wouldn't have.

[Sava]

BTW, regardless of whether or not Kerry was escaping while being shot at or whatever... I think it's irrelevant... I think it's silly to argue about some battle in Vietnam.

It's more important to take note of the fact that Kerry actually WENT TO VIETNAM (and fought)... especially when he didn't have to.

You want to talk about cover ups and such?

Let's look at the other guy and his "military experience".





If we're really going to have a discussion about who was doing what back in the day, Kerry is going to come out the winner.




oh btw, it's pissing me off that I'm having to defend John fricken Kerry

but I hate retards who believe right-wing bull**** more than I do Kerry

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I could give two ****s whether he went or not, same for W. What I take offense to his is actions when he came back, and these more than any other merit him getting a dishonorable regardless of whether he was valorous. Heck Benedict Arnold was one of the most courageous veterans of the revolutionary war, doesn't mean he wasn't a traitor.

[Sava]

The Nedaverse has more than one citizen living in it... apparantly.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Calls em as I sees em.

Kerry is scum like Murtha is scum.

Only Murtha never attempted to negotiate with AQ whilst Kerry did try his hand with the N Vietnamese.