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William Jefferson - Constitutional Crisis?

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  • William Jefferson - Constitutional Crisis?

    OK heres what I think happened, Congressman William Jefferson was apparently surveilled in a sting operation and was found to accept $100,000 in bribes from an FBI informant.

    FBI found $90000 in his home and got a warrant from the judicial to search Jeffersons Congressional office.

    Both Demonrats, Repugs, and pundits of boths sides are completely over the edge claiming consitutional intrusion on the separation of powers of executive, judicial and legislative.

    Question 1) Where does the consitution provide that the legislative is immune to criminal investigation? Or more to thepoint where does the constitutionprovide that congressional offices are sacrosanct from criminal investigation?

    Question 2) On the matter of criminal investigation and separation of powers, I beleive this defense was part and parcel of Nixons attempts to avoid turning over his tapes. The judical ruled accordingly that in the matters of criminal investigation Presidential priveldge doesn't hold. Why then would the legislative have sancturary?


    Can someone help me understand on what legal basis the legislative attempts to base their arguements?


    On side notes, the fact that this is supported by both Dems and Repugs only furthers my revulsion of the legislative and convinces me they all have something to hide.

    I likewise am extremely dissapointed in Newt Gingrich, author of contract for America, who has lately supported the constitutional separation of powers arguement members of the legislative are pushing. Afterall, it was Newt who authored

    On the first day of their majority, the Republicans promised to hold floor votes on eight reforms of government operations:

    * require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply to Congress;
    * select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;

    * cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;
    * limit the terms of all committee chairs;
    * ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;
    * require committee meetings to be open to the public;
    * require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;
    * and implement a zero base-line budgeting process for the annual Federal Budget.
    Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe; May 25, 2006, 16:20.
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

  • #2
    There is a provision which states members of Congress can't be arrested when Congress is in session. (That arises out of an old gripe against the Brits who would arrest colonial representatives.) So, IMHO Jefferson can properly be a target of a criminal investigation.

    As a matter of comity, most branches of government try not to trample on the perogatives of another. But that tradition isn't an outright prohibition.

    Comment


    • #3
      I say arrest the SOB, throw him in jail and use the evidence against him. Of course he will argue privilege. Let the Supremes decide.

      But I just heard that Bush the Wimp has ordered the siezed evidence sealed. This does not bode well for a court decision.
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

      Comment


      • #4
        Usually, evidence gathered in an ongoing criminal investigation is not released to the public.

        Comment


        • #5
          True. But Bush seems to be doing more than that.
          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

          Comment


          • #6
            I was wondering why there was no thread on it. It's been covered extensively by my paper, which is, after all, thousands of miles removed from the case.

            But then it struck me, the guy's a Democrat! Of course it would take someone as unprincipled and shameless as Ogie to even raise the issue.

            Oh, about the congressional "immunity" side of it, seems like a major effort to divert attention from the crimes he committed. Even if there is a basis for protesting such a search, it's a separate issue IMO, and does nothing to change the fact that Jefferson is looking extremely crooked, to put it nicely.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's so damned corrupt. ****ing pigs at the trough. Except that's insulting to pigs.

              The guy in California, this guy, and of course the horde of others who managed to not get caught (yet). Ugh.

              -Arrian
              grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

              The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Winston

                But then it struck me, the guy's a Democrat! Of course it would take someone as unprincipled and shameless as Ogie to even raise the issue.
                Me?
                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                Comment


                • #9
                  The fact that the executive has never searched a representative's office is telling. It's not as if the congress has never had corrupt members. I think the understanding among branches should be preserved. It looks like Jefferson is dead to rights without the documents anyway. The cash-in-freezer story is classic!

                  As for the politics of this, it makes the Dems look really bad. The GOP gets a freebie by supporting Jefferson's constitutional argument. Every day this case is mentioned is bad for the Dems. And I'm sure they had their GOP corruption ads already in the can. They'll have to go back and revise those.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS


                    As for the politics of this, it makes the Dems look really bad. The GOP gets a freebie by supporting Jefferson's constitutional argument. Every day this case is mentioned is bad for the Dems.
                    I gotta call busll****e on this. GOP gets to be tarred as having something similar to hide therby reinforcing the party of corruption meme. (only thing is as everyone knows it applies equally to both parties).

                    If the GOP had half a brain they would be running towards this and harken back to Contract with America and not attempting to pull the priveledged class bit.
                    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      GOP gets to be tarred as having something similar to hide therby reinforcing the party of corruption meme.
                      Well, maybe there is something to hide. If so, don't you think they would want it hidden and accept the negative inference?
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Precisely and that gets to be the conclusion of everyone with half a brain as well.

                        Far be it for me to actually want a party of principle. What a fantasy world I live in.

                        I'ld rather have a party that has ideals and has the odd failure to live up to them, then the party who blatently says they have no ideals.
                        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Really, I don't know if they have something big to hide. I suspect it's not that big.

                          I want a party that doesn't spend so damn much when in power (bridges to nowhere, etc.). I would vote this congress out on that basis alone.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tru dat. But thats another case of them blatently saying through actions that they have no ideals. (at least not those established in 1994)
                            "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                            “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well, they've already committed those spending acts. Too late to get religion now!
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                              Comment

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