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  • #31
    PART II:

    Common practice in '80s
    Though Bush has gone further than any previous president, his actions are not unprecedented.

    Since the early 19th century, American presidents have occasionally signed a large bill while declaring that they would not enforce a specific provision they believed was unconstitutional. On rare occasions, historians say, presidents also issued signing statements interpreting a law and explaining any concerns about it.

    But it was not until the mid-1980s, midway through the tenure of President Reagan, that it became common for the president to issue signing statements. The change came about after then-Attorney General Edwin Meese decided that signing statements could be used to increase the power of the president.

    When interpreting an ambiguous law, courts often look at the statute's legislative history, debate and testimony, to see what Congress intended it to mean. Meese realized that recording what the president thought the law meant in a signing statement might increase a president's influence over future court rulings.

    Under Meese's direction in 1986, a young Justice Department lawyer named Samuel A. Alito Jr. wrote a strategy memo about signing statements. It came to light in late 2005, after Bush named Alito to the Supreme Court.

    In the memo, Alito predicted that Congress would resent the president's attempt to grab some of its power by seizing ''the last word on questions of interpretation." He suggested that Reagan's legal team should ''concentrate on points of true ambiguity, rather than issuing interpretations that may seem to conflict with those of Congress."

    Reagan's successors continued this practice. George H.W. Bush challenged 232 statutes over four years in office, and Bill Clinton objected to 140 laws over his eight years, according to Kelley, the Miami University of Ohio professor.

    Many of the challenges involved longstanding legal ambiguities and points of conflict between the president and Congress.

    Throughout the past two decades, for example, each president -- including the current one -- has objected to provisions requiring him to get permission from a congressional committee before taking action. The Supreme Court made clear in 1983 that only the full Congress can direct the executive branch to do things, but lawmakers have continued writing laws giving congressional committees such a role.

    Still, Reagan, George H.W. Bush, and Clinton used the presidential veto instead of the signing statement if they had a serious problem with a bill, giving Congress a chance to override their decisions.

    But the current President Bush has abandoned the veto entirely, as well as any semblance of the political caution that Alito counseled back in 1986. In just five years, Bush has challenged more than 750 new laws, by far a record for any president, while becoming the first president since Thomas Jefferson to stay so long in office without issuing a veto.

    ''What we haven't seen until this administration is the sheer number of objections that are being raised on every bill passed through the White House," said Kelley, who has studied presidential signing statements through history. ''That is what is staggering. The numbers are well out of the norm from any previous administration."


    Exaggerated fears?
    Some administration defenders say that concerns about Bush's signing statements are overblown. Bush's signing statements, they say, should be seen as little more than political chest-thumping by administration lawyers who are dedicated to protecting presidential prerogatives.

    Defenders say the fact that Bush is reserving the right to disobey the laws does not necessarily mean he has gone on to disobey them.

    Indeed, in some cases, the administration has ended up following laws that Bush said he could bypass. For example, citing his power to ''withhold information" in September 2002, Bush declared that he could ignore a law requiring the State Department to list the number of overseas deaths of US citizens in foreign countries. Nevertheless, the department has still put the list on its website.

    Jack Goldsmith, a Harvard Law School professor who until last year oversaw the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel for the administration, said the statements do not change the law; they just let people know how the president is interpreting it.

    ''Nobody reads them," said Goldsmith. ''They have no significance. Nothing in the world changes by the publication of a signing statement. The statements merely serve as public notice about how the administration is interpreting the law. Criticism of this practice is surprising, since the usual complaint is that the administration is too secretive in its legal interpretations."

    But Cooper, the Portland State University professor who has studied Bush's first-term signing statements, said the documents are being read closely by one key group of people: the bureaucrats who are charged with implementing new laws.

    Lower-level officials will follow the president's instructions even when his understanding of a law conflicts with the clear intent of Congress, crafting policies that may endure long after Bush leaves office, Cooper said.

    ''Years down the road, people will not understand why the policy doesn't look like the legislation," he said.

    And in many cases, critics contend, there is no way to know whether the administration is violating laws -- or merely preserving the right to do so.

    Many of the laws Bush has challenged involve national security, where it is almost impossible to verify what the government is doing. And since the disclosure of Bush's domestic spying program, many people have expressed alarm about his sweeping claims of the authority to violate laws.

    In January, after the Globe first wrote about Bush's contention that he could disobey the torture ban, three Republicans who were the bill's principal sponsors in the Senate -- John McCain of Arizona, John W. Warner of Virginia, and Lindsey O. Graham of South Carolina -- all publicly rebuked the president.

    ''We believe the president understands Congress's intent in passing, by very large majorities, legislation governing the treatment of detainees," McCain and Warner said in a joint statement. ''The Congress declined when asked by administration officials to include a presidential waiver of the restrictions included in our legislation."

    Added Graham: ''I do not believe that any political figure in the country has the ability to set aside any . . . law of armed conflict that we have adopted or treaties that we have ratified."

    And in March, when the Globe first wrote about Bush's contention that he could ignore the oversight provisions of the Patriot Act, several Democrats lodged complaints.

    Senator Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, accused Bush of trying to ''cherry-pick the laws he decides he wants to follow."

    And Representatives Jane Harman of California and John Conyers Jr. of Michigan -- the ranking Democrats on the House Intelligence and Judiciary committees, respectively -- sent a letter to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales demanding that Bush rescind his claim and abide by the law.

    ''Many members who supported the final law did so based upon the guarantee of additional reporting and oversight," they wrote. ''The administration cannot, after the fact, unilaterally repeal provisions of the law implementing such oversight. . . . Once the president signs a bill, he and all of us are bound by it."


    Lack of court review
    Such political fallout from Congress is likely to be the only check on Bush's claims, legal specialists said.

    The courts have little chance of reviewing Bush's assertions, especially in the secret realm of national security matters.

    ''There can't be judicial review if nobody knows about it," said Neil Kinkopf, a Georgia State law professor who was a Justice Department official in the Clinton administration. ''And if they avoid judicial review, they avoid having their constitutional theories rebuked."

    Without court involvement, only Congress can check a president who goes too far. But Bush's fellow Republicans control both chambers, and they have shown limited interest in launching the kind of oversight that could damage their party.

    ''The president is daring Congress to act against his positions, and they're not taking action because they don't want to appear to be too critical of the president, given that their own fortunes are tied to his because they are all Republicans," said Jack Beermann, a Boston University law professor. ''Oversight gets much reduced in a situation where the president and Congress are controlled by the same party."

    Said Golove, the New York University law professor: ''Bush has essentially said that 'We're the executive branch and we're going to carry this law out as we please, and if Congress wants to impeach us, go ahead and try it.' "

    Bruce Fein, a deputy attorney general in the Reagan administration, said the American system of government relies upon the leaders of each branch ''to exercise some self-restraint." But Bush has declared himself the sole judge of his own powers, he said, and then ruled for himself every time.

    ''This is an attempt by the president to have the final word on his own constitutional powers, which eliminates the checks and balances that keep the country a democracy," Fein said. ''There is no way for an independent judiciary to check his assertions of power, and Congress isn't doing it, either. So this is moving us toward an unlimited executive power."
    Happy-happy-joy-joy...

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Arrian
      It's a really sad cultural problem in the US. Being smart means you're a nerd, you see, and that's just not cool. Thus, Bush's idiocy makes him like the common man and thus a more desirable leader.

      -Arrian
      Cool or not cool, I am surprised by the voter mentality who want to see a President that is "just like them", the average guy. I sure as hell wouldn't want to vote for a president that is the average guy, the president is supposed to be better at decision making, long-term thinking and many other things than average guys are.
      Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
      Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
      I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Arrian


        No. You presume all sorts of crazy ****.

        Like Iraq.
        Like the incompetent "diplomacy" displayed for the past ~6 years.
        Like the irresponsible spending (for which he is only partly responsible, but of course his party controls congress), coupled with tax cuts.
        Like the dubious things the NSA has been up to in the name of the WoT.
        Like Gitmo.

        -Arrian
        This is just so much hysterical leftist bull.
        http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Solver


          Cool or not cool, I am surprised by the voter mentality who want to see a President that is "just like them", the average guy. I sure as hell wouldn't want to vote for a president that is the average guy, the president is supposed to be better at decision making, long-term thinking and many other things than average guys are.
          I blame a kinda resent towards elitism in government. People don't want to be told how they should lead their lives by people that have airs.

          But that's a flawed thought, I'm sure.
          Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Ned

            This is just so much hysterical leftist bull.
            Oh, wow, you sure showed me!

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #36
              MERICA! WE'VE TURNED A CORNER!!!!!!!!!
              We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Ninot


                I blame a kinda resent towards elitism in government. People don't want to be told how they should lead their lives by people that have airs.

                But that's a flawed thought, I'm sure.
                Yes, and the Republicans have done an excellent job of painting Liberals/Democrats as those elitist who want to tell you how to live.

                Of course, both parties want to tell you how to live, but in different ways. The Republicans want to keep gays from marrying, stop abortion, roll back sex ed, discredit evolution in the specific and science in general, reduce environmental regulation, etc. The Dems are into more redistribution of wealth, anti-discrimination laws, environmental regulation, government handouts in general...

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Arrian


                  Oh, wow, you sure showed me!

                  -Arrian
                  I was just illustrating the depth of my "appreciation" for your list.
                  http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    'Tis comparable to my appreciation for your opinions, so we're square.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Arrian


                      Yes, and the Republicans have done an excellent job of painting Liberals/Democrats as those elitist who want to tell you how to live.

                      Of course, both parties want to tell you how to live, but in different ways. The Republicans want to keep gays from marrying, stop abortion, roll back sex ed, discredit evolution in the specific and science in general, reduce environmental regulation, etc. The Dems are into more redistribution of wealth, anti-discrimination laws, environmental regulation, government handouts in general...

                      -Arrian
                      It's to the republicans credit that they have been so succesful in painting the dems as dangerous liberal elitists
                      Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ninot


                        I blame a kinda resent towards elitism in government. People don't want to be told how they should lead their lives by people that have airs.

                        But that's a flawed thought, I'm sure.
                        Yes, seems like flawed logic to me. If you take it that the government tells you how to lead your life, then why not want a smarter man doing so? If you do not believe that the government tells you how to lead your life, why have an average guy doing the politic stuff... meh.
                        Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
                        Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
                        I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Solver


                          Yes, seems like flawed logic to me. If you take it that the government tells you how to lead your life, then why not want a smarter man doing so? If you do not believe that the government tells you how to lead your life, why have an average guy doing the politic stuff... meh.
                          It seems to me that somehow the thought of less government has become perverted to mean less professional (and thus competent) government.
                          Resident Filipina Lady Boy Expert.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ninot


                            It's to the republicans credit that they have been so succesful in painting the dems as dangerous liberal elitists
                            From a political strategy point of view, absolutely. And the Dems have been quite inept at countering it.

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The OP question wasn't Bush specific and instead was just a general "are things going the right direction" sort of deal. That incompuses a lot more then just Bush including things like, Congress, the economy, state office holders, local politicians, the local crime rate, whither the guy likes his boss, and half a million other things.

                              When this rating goes down it tends to be bad for all politicians from the feds right down to the locals.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by KrazyHorse


                                Which makes it even more astounding.

                                All he had to do was not be a complete ****wit and he could have coasted through two terms without a second thought.


                                How can you mess that up?
                                I suppose this is meant to be rhetorical since you preceeded it with the answer

                                be a complete ****wit
                                "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                                -Joan Robinson

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