Republicans vs. Sex Ed, round XXX

[Kontiki]

I started sex ed in grade 6. It must not have taken, because I didn't have sex for several years after that.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Excellent analogy Mr. Fun. Do we teach 12 year olds to drive?

That was not the point of my analogy, and you know it.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
No, but I am saying that teaching condom use and the like (to kids) is legitamizing kids having sex.

Where kids are different than teenagers...

JM

I'm not sure how learning about different types of birth control/disease prevention (and, I'm sure - and certainly in my case - stressing that abstinence is the only sure-fire way of preventing both) "legitimizes" kids having sex.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by MrFun


That was not the point of my analogy, and you know it.

Let him run with it. It's rediculously easy to shoot down.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Ok. Now, are the scientists who are in favour of condoms somehow free of ideology?

It's a scientific conference (or it was until the AO advocates were forced on the panel), so this is an irrelevant question.

BK
Why are condoms the 'scientific' choice, while abstinence, which has been proven to be effective at preventing STD transmission ignored.

This is a stupid question. The panel was about the inadequacy of abstinence-only education for reducing STD transmission, not about the inadequacy of abstinence for reducing STD transmission.

BK
If this conference isn't about ideology, then the so called impartial scientists who favour condoms should have no problems dealing with contrary scientific opinions wrt to the efficacy of condoms.

These aren't scientific opinions being presented in favor of abstinence-only education, these are ideological opinions being presented in favor of abstinence-only education. Whether the scientists will have "any problem dealing with" the technically incompetent panelists is irrelevant -- they shouldn't have to be forced to waste their time "dealing with" people who shouldn't be panelists in the first place.

BK
Well that's all very fine. How does one become 'technically competent'

Try reading the article next time.

the article that BK evidently didn't read
Trigg's symposium proposal went through all the steps of peer review, including an expert panel, and was accepted.

BK
and does such competence mean that you must agree with the prevailing notions with respect to condoms?

This is a stupid question. You've taken the claim that these particular AO advocates are technically incompetent, and conflated that with the claim that all AO advocates are technically incompetent. In other words, you're throwing around strawmen. Again, from the article you didn't read...

the article that BK evidently didn't read
According to Trigg, public-health physicians in New Mexico reviewed Sulak's "Worth the Wait" program and rejected it because of gender bias and medical errors.

Quite the pinnacle of technical competence, eh?

BK
Scientifically, the evidence does not support the prevailing notions, and in fact we are doing a great deal of harm to these kids by ignoring the facts.

Fine, then get some technically competent AO advocates to support this claim. Don't just start brandishing your ideology without any supporting evidence.

You're trying to turn a scientific debate into an ideological debate. Stop it.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kontiki
I started sex ed in grade 6. It must not have taken, because I didn't have sex for several years after that.

Dude, I don't think you understand me at all.

JM

[MRT144]

im gonna tell kids that no one likes you if you have STDs and if you have a baby unplanned your future and life is ruined

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Dude, I don't think you understand me at all.

JM

Maybe not. I'm interpreting what you're saying as teaching pre-teens about birth control/STD prevention is saying it's OK to have sex at that age (hence the "legitimizing"). And because children that age shouldn't be having sex, they shouldn't be learning about it. Which parts do I have incorrect?

[Kontiki]

Maybe I'm just out of touch with today's sex ed. Lord knows it's been a while since I went through it (I think my last classes were in grade 9, so that's 16 years ago). Here's what I was taught over the years:

- male and female reproductive anatomy, including female menstral cylces and male sperm generation, hormones, etc.
- how conception and fetal development occurs
- STDs in general and more about the most common ones
- various methods of protection and how successful they are at preventing pregnancy and STDs (none of which were presented as 100%)
- that the only 100% effective method for preventing both pregnancy and STDs is complete abstinence
- how to put on a condom
- there are strong emotional and psychological elements to sex, and it shouldn't be taken lightly

Things I was specifically NOT taught:
- sex is evil
- free love, baby!
- any discussions of technique, style, etc.

[MRT144]

the how to put on a condom should have some material at hand to build up the ability to open the condom package, place it on, roll it up. and nifty places to store them.

[Kontiki]

And how to do it quickly so you don't lose your wood.

[Arrian]

Kontiki. That jives with my memory of sex ed as well.

-Arrian

[Dis]

Originally posted by Lorizael
My best friend has been doing the abstinence thing for twenty one years now. Not exactly by choice, but you know, it works.

actually I don't. Why exactly can't he get laid in 21 years?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Arrian
Actually, talking about sex with younger kids might just bring that abuse out into the open, where it can be dealt with by the proper authorities. Anyway, I've got no problem with reinforcing in schools that sex before age... what, 14? is wrong/illegal.

I dunno how we got off onto this tangent about 12 yr. olds having sex, though. I'm talking about sex ed in general and what to teach. I had sex ed in HIGHSCHOOL.

-Arrian

p.s. I thought I read/heard somewhere that the reasons for earlier & earlier puberty in kids is a combo of stress and bad diet. Anybody heard any more about that?

kids stressed out? Surely you are joking. Kids got it so easy now days. When I was a kid...

[Arrian]

Uphill both ways in the snow, right Dis?

-Arrian