Bolivia nationalizes natural gas industry

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


No, that isn't the only question. You can offer up all the excuses in the world, but it's amazing that the US federal gov't gets cheap loans out of SS while SS is going to be underfunded in the near future. The very fact that they're getting cheap loans is advancing a particular interest.

cheap relative to WHAT? To standard T Bill rates? AFAIK the rates theyre getting are no different to what other investors get in T bills.

It may well be that the SS fund should be more diversified than it is. But thats something thats been a matter for debate in the US. Its not a sudden change instituted by the executive.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
No, that isn't the only question. You can offer up all the excuses in the world, but it's amazing that the US federal gov't gets cheap loans out of SS while SS is going to be underfunded in the near future. The very fact that they're getting cheap loans is advancing a particular interest.

It's not really cheap loans. It's more like we get to not pay as much tax, and the economy benefits from that.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


cheap relative to WHAT? To standard T Bill rates? AFAIK the rates theyre getting are no different to what other investors get in T bills.

Just because the rates are the same for other investors in T Bills doesn't mean that the decision to invest in T Bills isn't political. If the government decided to put all of its money into tweezer companies with a RoI of 2% then the decision would be political even if the rates of return they got were equal to other investors in tweezer companies. The SS fund is not being run in the most efficient way to accumulate capital by any stretch of the imagination. Other investors use T-bills as a way of stabilising their portfolios. The SS fund uses them as its entire portfolio. This makes more cheap credit available to the US gov't than would otherwise be true. It's a giant slush fund which lets successive US gov'ts pretend that they aren't overspending by as much as they are. It's being used as a political tool, and it cheats its contributors.

It may well be that the SS fund should be more diversified than it is. But thats something thats been a matter for debate in the US. Its not a sudden change instituted by the executive.

Just because somebody's been a thief for 70 years doesn't mean that what they're doing isn't theft.

[KrazyHorse]

BTW, SS holds ~25% of outstanding T-bill type obligations

So 25% of integrated US deficit spending has been funded by SS

Tell me that's not significant.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Just because somebody's been a thief for 70 years doesn't mean that what they're doing isn't theft.

Except of course at the time Social Security was formed I dont think the current fiscal situation was envisioned, or the current demographic situation creating a large surplus in the fund needed to pay off a later deficit. So you cant really call FDR and the congress that established Social Security the thief, cause they didnt intend the current situation. And you cant accuse anyone alive today of being the thief, cause no one actually advocates the current situation.

Its an old restriction, that is outdated, but that our political system has not managed to fix.

Its really NOT comparable to a deliberate attempt to CHANGE control of a pension fund, in order to advance a particular goal.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
BTW, SS holds ~25% of outstanding T-bill type obligations

So 25% of integrated US deficit spending has been funded by SS

Tell me that's not significant.

I didnt say its not significant. I said its not "theft".

[Last Conformist]

Allegedly, this thread is about Bolivia.

[Arrian]

How long can people be reasonably expected to discuss Bolivia?

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I didnt say its not significant. I said its not "theft".

Then your definition of theft is the narrow one.

Until the Bolivian gov ****s the FCC as badly as the US gov has ****ed SS I'm not going to call what they do "theft" either.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Arrian
How long can people be reasonably expected to discuss Bolivia?

-Arrian

Or point to it on a map?

[KrazyHorse]

I can point to any country (and name its capital) with the exception of certain island nations in the Carribbean and South Pacific

[Vince278]

There really aren't that many people like us.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I can point to any country (and name its capital) with the exception of certain island nations in the Carribbean and South Pacific

I used to be able to do that. These days I forget the capitals of various silly countries in Africa and the Americas.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Then your definition of theft is the narrow one.

Until the Bolivian gov ****s the FCC as badly as the US gov has ****ed SS I'm not going to call what they do "theft" either.

I didnt call what the bolivian govt did theft, either.

But its certainly news, in a way that a 70 year old US govt policy is not.

[Kidlicious]

Think about it this way. Say you run short on cash in your checking account. You can transfer some cash from your savings account or you can get a loan from the bank. But you have a savings target and you don't want to pay interest. You can "loan" your checking account money from your savings account. You can even transfer interest into your savings account.

That doesn't mean that you are earning money though. That would be nice if it were that easy.