What constitutes racism?

[Ramo]

Race is a social, not genetic, construct. So racism is discrimination based on said social construct.

[Spiffor]

Re: What constitutes racism?

Not read the thread.

To me, racism is the attitude that makes race* a relevant issue when assessing someone.

I don't think any of us can fully escape racism. Even anti-racists can occasionally change their attitudes toward a fellow human because of the skin (being surprised that a black man performs in some specific way, being surprised by a yellow man's joke, things like that).

*race, as in a biological construct, that is considered to have inherent truth to it. I'm not talking about the social concept of race (i.e, taking into account the stigma a minority can endure). I think the biological construct is bull****, but many people consider it seriously.

[Barnabas]

If race is just a social construct, then I guess , If I showed you a native from sweden, a native from congo and a native from Japan, and asked you, who is the swede? who is the japanese? who is from congo?


then, you wouldnt be able to answer that question?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ramo
Race is a social, not genetic, construct. So racism is discrimination based on said social construct.

Agree with this.

People create race definitions based on their social norms. Being black in the US is different from being black in say Brazil, not because there is less prejudice and inherent xenophobia in either place, but because what the definition of "black" as opposed to "white" is different in either place.

As for racism, I agree with those who state that Racism is a belief that racial different denote a siognificant difference in essentially moral worth, that one race is "superior" and one "inferior." This is different from prejudice, which is inherently common.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
If race is just a social construct, then I guess , If I showed you a native from sweden, a native from congo and a native from Japan, and asked you, who is the swede? who is the japanese? who is from congo?


then, you wouldnt be able to answer that question?

Take a man from Cochabamba, La Paz, and Sucre, and tell me where they came from. That is a better question than picking individual from three different continents.

So Brachy- how many races are there in Bolivia?

[Barnabas]

First, you did not answer my question, you asked something else.

Originally posted by GePap
Take a man from Cochabamba, La Paz, and Sucre, and tell me where they came from.

I wouldnt be able to tell that because they all belong to the same race, amerindians/native americans, (I guess we are talking about natives from Bolivia and not of amerindians with spanish or black admixture).

The founding population of all native americans was rather small, so there isnt a lot diversity in looks, (altough in north america the Na Dene people and Eskimos later migrated)

I could probably tell if someone comes from the altiplano or from the jungle since andean amerindians and amerindians from the amazonas look rather different.

That is a better question than picking individual from three different continents.

How?
In the case of natives from those cities no one thinks they belong to different races.
Not them, not the spaniards, nadie.

In the example I gave you could tell from where those men came from just by looking at them, even if naked with the same haircut etc which means there is something in their looks, not a social construct, which can tell you that.

So Brachy- how many races are there in Bolivia?

More than half of the population is made of amerindians, mestizos and people of mainly spanish ancestry are the only worth mentioning minority, blacks, non spanish whites and east asians are very few.


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By the way, I kinda agree with you.

For example, Lenny Kravitz and Halle Berry are black in the USA, in Brazil they would not be considered black, and if they were brazilians they may even feel insulted if they were called black.

In Brazil a black man is someone who looks 100% black, like just captured in west africa, Berry and Kravitz have both a white parent and a black parent, so they wouldnt be black, they would be mulatos or something else, brazilians have many names for different looks.

In the USA you can have 3 white grandparents and 1 black grandparent, and still be black.
On mtv I saw last week a show about the 80´s and the girl from flashdance was called black in the show, I was like (?!?!)

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My point is, race is often a social construct, for example, I think the irish were not white in the USA for many decades, and some turks, north africans or middle easterners who may look as "white" as italians greeks or spaniards, would not be considered white while italians greeks and spaniards are considered white.
For me Saddam Hussein is a white guy but I think for most americans he isnt one.

In spite of that I think, while for example "white" may be subjetive, and meaningless, broader more inclusive terms like Caucasian, Black and East Asian are biological realities.

[Nickiow]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
If race is just a social construct, then I guess , If I showed you a native from sweden, a native from congo and a native from Japan, and asked you, who is the swede? who is the japanese? who is from congo?


then, you wouldnt be able to answer that question?

The answer you want is you are viewing 3 members of the human race, (there is only one human race btw) they just happen to live in seperate geographical localitys and have marginal physical adaptive features.

After all you would not like that all jews look like A Simms in Dickins, or shylock and criminals all have shifty eyes and so on. Or consider if you had your 3 samples, but only a photo negative to make your judgment on, this is not as odd as it sounds as its a method often used in samples to get peoples response to orgins.

[Nickiow]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride


In the USA you can have 3 white grandparents and 1 black grandparent, and still be black.
On mtv I saw last week a show about the 80´s and the girl from flashdance was called black in the show, I was like (?!?!)

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The US census used to list mullatos as having 1/8 white heritage, then it become a poltical correctness thing....

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
My point is, race is often a social construct, for example, I think the irish were not white in the USA for many decades, and some turks, north africans or middle easterners who may look as "white" as italians greeks or spaniards, would not be considered white while italians greeks and spaniards are considered white.
For me Saddam Hussein is a white guy but I think for most americans he isnt one.

In spite of that I think, while for example "white" may be subjetive, and meaningless, broader more inclusive terms like Caucasian, Black and East Asian are biological realities.

Well yes, race as a social construct requires a seperation based on geography, ie we are differnt from them but quite why was another matter, untill science answered most of our orgins questions we were all from Adam and Eve, who had no belly buttons i preseme, and the church said that negros and other colored peoples came from Noahs son, and ofspring who turned away from God, went away and was burned black so all would know them as such, and yes its ok to make them slaves.

The irish not white?, do you mean like the free white parts of state constitions?, because they were not allowed citizenship untill they had lived in a state for x years, longer than the usual one year for others?, i dont recall that was because they were not white but because of religion and it was thought a longer period of residency would be best befor making them full citizens.

[Nickiow]

Defining racism is a slippery one, one i definition i like is that it is the denigration of others as individuals or a group based on selective comparisons. But there are many definitions i would accept.