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Why are people so suspicious of Big Business in the Western world ?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Patroklos
    I think the propblem is that for some ungodly reason people assume buisnesses have social responsibilites.

    There sole purpose is to make profit within the confines of the law. Alot of distrust is because recently they haven't been doing so in many cases (like .0001% overall). Buisnesses are only beholden to workers for what an employment contract says. If you sign one with a pension, you should get it. If you sign one without it, how is that the companies fault.


    Quite the opposite, my dear Patroklos. Businesses are part of society and thus beholden to society's interest. They have duties just like any other member of society. If they want to stick around for the long haul, they have to co-operate. If they don't, they have to be watched very, very closely.

    Unfortunately, in the 1980s a disease of precisely your mode of thought swept the US business world. Sensible business management was replaced with next-quarter-trumps-everything, all-divisions-must-be-self-profitable, try-to-turn-all-costs-into-externalities-so-that-someone-else-pays lunacy that's absolutely suicidal in the long run.

    Worse, because managers now get business degrees instead of humanities and sciences degrees, the corporate world is increasingly being run by the blind who are relatively ignorant of both history and of physical realities of our world. Bah.
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    • #47
      Re: Re: Why are people so suspicious of Big Business in the Western world ?

      Originally posted by JohnT
      Of course they do, as well as they do great things (it was ATT, after all, that invented the transistor, laser, cell phone, and discovered the Big Bang, all in a 25 year period).
      Big Bang was not discovered by AT&T. You meant the cosmic background radiation. That's discovered by accident.

      The cell phone was invented by Dr Martin Cooper for Motorola. Funny thing is he said (on a Discovery show) that he got the idea from the communicator used in Star Trek.

      High tech companies puts $ into research because that's where the next Big Opportunity will come from. They don't do it out of the goodness of their heart.
      (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
      (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
      (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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      • #48
        Big Bang was not discovered by AT&T. You meant the cosmic background radiation. That's discovered by accident.


        By ATT.

        The cell phone was invented by Dr Martin Cooper for Motorola. Funny thing is he said (on a Discovery show) that he got the idea from the communicator used in Star Trek.


        No, the idea of the cell phone predates Dr Cooper, to 1947 when ATT proposed that the FCC open up frequencies for cellular phone use. The FCC, in its infinite wisdom, decided to do so - but limited the number of lines to 23 per cell. ATT decided not to pursue it, other than using this system to develop a means for police to talk to each other.

        Dr. Cooper invented the first portable handset, true, but he built it assuming the existence of a technological infrastructure that made his handset useful. However, his patents do not detract from the main point, which was that a corporation (in your example, Motorola) was the one that did the deed.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by JohnT
          By ATT.
          By two employees of AT&T

          Who, if their supervisors had any clue as to their activities, would probably have been forced to drop it...

          edit:screw the otbot
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          • #50
            Originally posted by MRT144



            "because I wasnt there". india is doomed because of people like you. DOOMED!
            What a horrible misunderstanding !

            X says : You did not reply to this . . . .
            I say : Because I was not there .

            I meant : I did not reply because I was not present at the forums at that time , not because I was not there at the site of the tragedy .

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Urban Ranger


              They indeed do.

              Only a Randroid would deny this.
              Their responsibility is to attempt provide the best possible good/service at the lowest possible price . Any comporation doing that is , in my opinion , carrying out its social responsibility exceedingly well .

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              • #52
                and hence we doubt that you're speaking for a billion Indians here
                In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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                • #53
                  Re: Re: Why are people so suspicious of Big Business in the Western world ?

                  Originally posted by JohnT
                  ...I do note that the list that Zk derived are crimes of property (except the Triangle fire), unlike governments who tend to commit crimes of person, or individuals who commit both.
                  I also mentioned the muckraker stories, including the selling of tapeworms as a diet aid. The muckrakers dug up stories mainly on health and safety stuff -- packaging diseased meat, mislabling products, etc.

                  Mary had a little lamb.
                  One day she saw it sicken.
                  She took it into packing town,
                  And now it's labled "Chicken."


                  And that kind of stuff is still going on. See Erin Brokovich about PG&E's dumping of toxics into the groundwater.

                  JohnT does point out correctly that corporations do a lot of good. But the question posed is why do Westerns suspecious of Big Business.

                  I feel about corporations the way Chico felt about Harpo:

                  He's honest. Ya just gotta watch him.

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                  • #54
                    One would think that Bhopal (sp?) would've made an impression (Union Carbide).

                    Sure, it wasn't an Indian company. But then again, the Indian government signed off on a pitiful settlement between UC and the victims. That right there doesn't inspire much confidence in government oversight in India.

                    ...

                    Corporations are by nature amoral. The people who run them are sometimes good, sometimes bad. But they are all after profit. History has shown that it is often cheaper to **** over the little guy than to act responsibly.

                    As for me personally... handling long-tail environmental claims for 7 years has opened my eyes to the conduct of large corporations. And small ones, for that matter. But the big boys are more capable of coverups and because of their size they do a lot more damage.

                    Family owned... this means something? Bah.

                    -Arrian
                    Last edited by Arrian; April 10, 2006, 13:43.
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Arrian
                      Family owned... this means something? Bah.
                      Example: Wal-Mart

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by aneeshm


                        What a horrible misunderstanding !

                        X says : You did not reply to this . . . .
                        I say : Because I was not there .

                        I meant : I did not reply because I was not present at the forums at that time , not because I was not there at the site of the tragedy .
                        thank the lord
                        "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                        'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                        • #57
                          Unfortunately, in the 1980s a disease of precisely your mode of thought swept the US business world. Sensible business management was replaced with next-quarter-trumps-everything, all-divisions-must-be-self-profitable, try-to-turn-all-costs-into-externalities-so-that-someone-else-pays lunacy that's absolutely suicidal in the long run.
                          Are you honestly saying that you think that is a 1980's movement? You are basically mad at buisnesses for carring about buisnes. Buisnesses use employees as an means to an ends, just like employees use buisnesses. You are payed by a buisness, which you can then use to invest in that buisness are any other one you wish to become one of these shareholders you seem to think are so evil. Your reward for work is pay, thats it unless your contact says otherwise.

                          EDIT: Actually, the second one is from after I spell checked it and then pasted it back in, forgeting to delete the first. So who has a problem with spelling???
                          Last edited by Patroklos; April 11, 2006, 13:13.
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                          • #58
                            A point so good, you needed to repeat it again, only with more spelling mistakes the second time around?
                            "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
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                            • #59
                              A point so nice, he made it twice.

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                              • #60
                                Union Carbide Bhopal incident was an object lesson in irresponsible local manufacturing practices. I wouldn't necessarily indict Union Carbide as a whole. I would however indict the local management who allowed safety precautions to be completely overlooked as well as safe guard designs.

                                My experience with Union Carbide facilities in the states shows them to be by and large responsible manufacturing entities.
                                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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