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  • #16
    The problem is that when an elected president does what most people actually want , it is called populism, at least when it happens in third world countries.
    I need a foot massage

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    • #17
      Originally posted by lord of the mark
      no one votes for or against "congress" they vote for or against their local congressmen.

      its perfectly possible for someone to despise congress , but for their local congressman because
      A. The problem in congress is all those guys in party/ideology X, not my guy whose party/ideology Y
      or
      B. the problem is all those congressman who vote for pork projects while my guy only votes for stuff that we really, really need here in my district, and let me tell you why we need it so badly ......

      Its been like this for a long time. No RIP at all.
      Exactly. "My Congressman is a liberal/conservative, but those conservative/liberal *******s make Congress suck! If my Congressman was in charge everything would be better". It's a common view among a lot of people. Congress is rated low because the people on the other side of the aisle are messing things up.

      And yeah, we have two parties, but look at Canada. Outside of Quebec (where there is one party ), Canada has basically the same restriction. Either the Conservatives or Liberals will be in charge. Some piddling party may get some votes, but they aren't going to run things!
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        basically the same restriction. Either the Conservatives or Liberals will be in charge. Some piddling party may get some votes, but they aren't going to run things!
        You must have missed that whole "minority government" thing we've had going for the last little while...
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KrazyHorse
          You must have missed that whole "minority government" thing we've had going for the last little while...
          And who exactly is running said "minority government"?

          Are you under the impression that any third party is going to have the votes to run the country?
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #20
            Why don't you get some real royalties and get rid of those presidents .
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #21
              Originally posted by lord of the mark
              no one votes for or against "congress" they vote for or against their local congressmen.

              its perfectly possible for someone to despise congress , but for their local congressman because
              A. The problem in congress is all those guys in party/ideology X, not my guy whose party/ideology Y
              or
              B. the problem is all those congressman who vote for pork projects while my guy only votes for stuff that we really, really need here in my district, and let me tell you why we need it so badly ......

              Its been like this for a long time. No RIP at all.
              Bill Maher, a few weeks ago, said something like:

              (and I'm paraphrasing what he said)

              It's like when parents are upset at the schools, they say, "The schools suck, but my kid is a genius".

              To us, it is the BEAST.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


                And who exactly is running said "minority government"?

                Are you under the impression that any third party is going to have the votes to run the country?
                Under the last one we had, pretty much everything hinged upon gaining support of one of the alternate parties. Hence, they could push for items from their own agendas. Not really "running" things, but certainly far more influential than anything a third party in the US has ever seen.
                "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
                "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
                "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

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                • #23
                  Apparantly all americans are slaves under two political organisations and any attempt to promote another option is "RIDICULOUS LOOL". Because it won't have a chance in the election, if so many people are against the current order then get together and promote something else. Land of the free or the land of blamin everyone else?

                  It might take a few years and "wasted votes" but last time I checked total stagnation wasn't a good sign of a healthy democracy.
                  It's candy. Surely there are more important things the NAACP could be boycotting. If the candy were shaped like a burning cross or a black man made of regular chocolate being dragged behind a truck made of white chocolate I could understand the outrage and would share it. - Drosedars

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
                    The problem is that when an elected president does what most people actually want , it is called populism, at least when it happens in third world countries.
                    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                    • #25
                      The only thing I don't understand about the US democracy is that the guys who can come up with the biggest pile of money will get to run things.
                      Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyards
                      And notifying the next of kin
                      Once again...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hueij
                        The only thing I don't understand about the US democracy is that the guys who can come up with the biggest pile of money will get to run things.
                        That doesn't bother me that much if the money was spent on telling what the guy wanted to do. Problem is that most of it is used on telling how bad the opponent is.
                        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                        Steven Weinberg

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          And who exactly is running said "minority government"?

                          Are you under the impression that any third party is going to have the votes to run the country?
                          You're like totally misunderstanding the point of a minority government. It means they're in coalition. It means they have to listen to people other than themselves. The 'majority' party might still be in charge of administrative details of the govt but for all legislation they have to gain the support of other parties.

                          Therefore more view points are heard and its less of a dictatorship.

                          heres an example. Say you're building a skyrise. In your system whoever the elected majority is gets to build the whole thing in the way they see fit (as long as they don't piss of public opinion too much). In a minority govt the 'majority' party is incharge of the construction team but they have to consult and compromise and get consent from however many other parties they need to get a majority as to where they place rooms and what rooms these are.

                          Hell even if getting rid of the two party system is anti american. You should restrict the funding the parties get for elections. Americas politics are very much a thing of us vs them. You're either a republican or a democrat and they're both about the same shade of pink as each other anyways.

                          What you need is more choice.

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                          • #28

                            Therefore more view points are heard and its less of a dictatorship.

                            heres an example. Say you're building a skyrise. In your system whoever the elected majority is gets to build the whole thing in the way they see fit (as long as they don't piss of public opinion too much). In a minority govt the 'majority' party is incharge of the construction team but they have to consult and compromise and get consent from however many other parties they need to get a majority as to where they place rooms and what rooms these are.


                            The American (Congressional) system is not the same as the Parliamentary system. The party elected as majority in the House isn't necessarily the party elected as majority in the Senate.. or as President. Both legislative bodies and the executive are not always run by the same party (in fact it is less common that one branch being controlled by the opposing party). So you have to get elected majority in 3 seperate bodies to be able to build the whole thing as you want.... while in Britain, for instance, you just have to be elected majority in 1 body to do what you want.

                            And how do you think US parties, especially in the Senate, work? In the Senate, especially, mavericks have been around since the beginning, bucking their own party whenever they feel like it. You need to take into account the viewpoints of the other factions in your own party or else you get nothing passed. What do you think the Republicans and Democrats are? They are massive coalitions representing each side of the spectrum.

                            What you need is more choice.


                            There are at least 20 parties that run a candidate for President. No one is stopping people from voting for them.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Cept the 150 years of well established machinery and "credibility" of the 2 most popular parties along with the billions of dollars backing them

                              Campaign funds really need to be publiclly funded and equalized among all candidates with strict controls so everyone gets a fair shot at running.

                              That way people get elected on their *gasp* platforms and charisma instead of who can spend the most money.

                              But I know that will never happen I agree with everything Sava said in his original post (cept jessica simpson is still hot), democracy is dead, and even when we become more and more aware of its flaws it seems we realize how powerless we are to correct the flaws.
                              We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                              • #30
                                Re: democracy RIP

                                Originally posted by Sava Oh, I'm sure DanS has told you guys, record corporate profits!!

                                LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL...

                                You know where those corporate profits are going right? Trickling down to the working people?



                                No silly... some for the CEO's, some for the execs, some for the shareholders (mostly top 10%ers), and a lot for CORPORATE LOBBYISTS!
                                Voluntary Human Extinction Movement http://www.vhemt.org/

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