Massachusetts will require mandatory health insurance.

[David Floyd]

Of course it is (well, part of it). This is highly sensitive military hardware, and its been sent to private business to make. The military is charged with defending the US, and they have gone to the private sector to help them with that task. The fact that the US does NOT have nationalized industry makes this outsourcing necessary.

Highly sensitive military hardware is often the result of civilian inventions, and yes, that's often with military funding. I still don't see your point, though. The actual operation and use of weapons is not being outsourced. True, the weapons are built by private companies, but this isn't outsourcing in the sense of outsourcing the DoD. These companies are neither making military decisions nor functioning as a military force.

And, as I edited in my previous post, before 9/11 private companies ran aiport security. States and cities outsourced their security to the private airlines. TSA just took over security recently, but are now allowing hiring through private companies again... which is obviously a case of outsourcing.

True, but pre-9/11, airport security really wasn't seen as national defense in the sense that it is now. Any outsource hiring that TSA is doing is still done with TSA, and as such the federal government, being in control of the entire operation. I'd equate it to hiring PMCs to operate in Iraq.

Your restatement doesn't work. Any function of government can, at some level, impact the maintainance of a Republican form of government, no matter who runs it. For example a corrupt public police force has a big impact on keeping a Republican form of government.

Yes of course, but you are missing the point. If the government has a duty to maintain a Republican form of government, and all other proper functions of the government directly or indirectly impact the maintenance of a Republican form of government, then it stands to reason that the proper functions of government can't be outsourced. If they could, then it would no longer be a case of the government maintaining a Republican form of government, which we both agree is required by the Constitution.

Lord knows the current public police forces we have aren't all that law abiding or impartial. I'd imagine it'd be hard to do worse

I'd imagine that the militias which "maintain" law and order in Somalia and various other African ****holes are a good sight worse than the US public police force, to take a real world example.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Highly sensitive military hardware is often the result of civilian inventions, and yes, that's often with military funding. I still don't see your point, though. The actual operation and use of weapons is not being outsourced. True, the weapons are built by private companies, but this isn't outsourcing in the sense of outsourcing the DoD. These companies are neither making military decisions nor functioning as a military force.

Why isn't this outsourcing? These companies aren't making military decisions nor a military force, but they are making what is required to field a military force. Without these contractors there is no military. The military doesn't have production facilities, so it outsources the making of weapons to private companies.

True, but pre-9/11, airport security really wasn't seen as national defense in the sense that it is now. Any outsource hiring that TSA is doing is still done with TSA, and as such the federal government, being in control of the entire operation. I'd equate it to hiring PMCs to operate in Iraq.

People knew the risks of hijackings, terrorism, etc on the airlines. If they didn't care until 9/11 that doesn't make it any less of a national security issue.

And whether highing people through private companies or hiring mercenaries, BOTH are outsourcing of governmental functions. Both involve private companies hiring those that will work under the government. Or does hiring employees for the government not come up under the so-called "proper function" of government. In that case, what is your objection to having a private company hire and run police forces, like they do with mercenaries. Put them under an elected chief and what's the difference?

If the government has a duty to maintain a Republican form of government, and all other proper functions of the government directly or indirectly impact the maintenance of a Republican form of government, then it stands to reason that the proper functions of government can't be outsourced. If they could, then it would no longer be a case of the government maintaining a Republican form of government, which we both agree is required by the Constitution.

You've gone from A to C without going through B. Why can't the so-called "proper functions" of government not be outsourced? Why would it no longer be having a Republican form of government? Because it 'impacts on the maintainance'? I've already pointed out that a having the police force being private has no more negative impact on the 'maintainance of a Republican form of government' than a public one.

What exactly is your support of your point here? Saying that all 'proper functions' have an impact on maintaining a Republican form of government and therefore they all must be public doesn't work. You are missing a step.. or there is a hole in your logic (I'd bet on the later).

Further "proper functions" of government? That's kind of a subjective term, right? I'd imagine there are plenty that believe universal health care coverage is a "proper function" of government (Hell, I even think it is), for example.

If you don't like that one, where does garbage disposal come in? Is it a "proper function" of government? A lot of towns have the government pick up the garbage (and have for a very very long time), while plenty others have you contract with a private company for garbage pickup. That "proper function" of government has absolute no bearing on what form of government there is. If you believe it isn't a "proper function", then why would fire fighting be one? Or is it not one?

I'd imagine that the militias which "maintain" law and order in Somalia and various other African ****holes are a good sight worse than the US public police force, to take a real world example.

And of course we know that those militias are exactly what we are talking about when we talk about outsourcing police forces in the US. We all know the political and economic infrastructure is the same in both areas as well.

[Dis]

Doesn't seem right. My friend can't even get health insurance because of her pre-existing condition with her back. She's been denied by every health insurance company in america.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

If she were in MA, insurance companies would almost have to insure her.

Auto companies here are required BY LAW to (almost) always give insurance, even to those with bad credit and poor driving history. I figure its probably the same for this Health plan.