Chavez steals millions from foreign companies.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


You've been hammering on that one a lot recently, what's your beef?

That you are an idiot who has yet to post an intelligent comment on anything ever written on this board?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
There really aren't any -- they're first world now.

Well, so far, we've had Qatar and the UAE. The obvious conclusion is that Chavez should suspend democracy and develop a strongly nationalised infrastructure combined with zero-tax free-trade business pockets.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by techumseh
It seems that many of you here care more for the property "rights" of oil companies, most of whom are making record profits at our expense, than the conditions of the poor in the third world. In fact, it's clear that most of you don't give a damn about atrocious housing, inadequate sanitation, poor education and a lack of health care for millions of poor brown people in other countries. These people are suffering and dying every day -not just in Venezuela, and all you can do is whine about the right of huge corporations from your country to go into other countries and take their oil.

And you think Chavez´ seizing of the oilfields will change the conditions of the poor people in Venezuela for better?

[Velociryx]

And you think Chavez´ seizing of the oilfields will change the conditions of the poor people in Venezuela for better?

Only if you count Chavez and his croonies as being among "the poor."

-=Vel=-

(I would imagine that what would really help the poor in Ven., would be additional foriegn investment in basic infrastructure in the country. That has been made less likely by dear leader's own actions....I can't see how, long-term, this could be a good thing for the masses).

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Venezuela grew by 10.2% last quarter.

Damn, they must be annexing huge swaths of Colombia.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by techumseh
It seems that many of you here care more for the property "rights" of oil companies, most of whom are making record profits at our expense....

Ah, the old economics is a zero sum game ploy. They have money so they must have stolen it from someone else eh?

[techumseh]

The oil companies have held sway in Venezuela since oil was discovered there in the 20s. Foreign investment has uniformly failed to benefit the majority of the people, who have remained very poor, undereducated and under housed. Get past simple dogmas about economics and look at actual conditions of real people.

In most countries, especially poor ones, the exploitation of oil resources has widened the gap between rich and poor. Chavez is trying to do something different, and I think we should support him.

Chavez's domestic program includes land reform to give peasants their own land, extensive literacy and education programs, and new housing for the poor.

He has increased oil production and entered into new exploration programs. PDVSA hopes to increase production to as much as 4,019,000 barrels per day by 2012.

Chavez has signed agreements with other Caribbean and Latin American countries to provide them with oil at below world prices. He is providing subsidies Cuba to provide high quality medical services to people in the region who have never before received them.

He has organized a coaliton of Carribean and Latin American countries which has completely blocked the attempts of the Bush Administration to organize a "Free Trade of the Americas" agreement. And despite unremitting hostility from Washington, he has maintained oil exports to the the United States.

Finally, despite attempts to illegally overthrow him, Chavez has proceeded to implement his program democratically and constitutionally. I think he's a very impressive guy.

[Darius871]

...and you're certain land reform, education, new shacks, and slightly higher oil revenues are going to benefit the poor more than complete alienation of foreign capital and expertise will hurt them? In the long run?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Darius871
...and you're certain land reform, education, new shacks, and slightly higher oil revenues are going to benefit the poor more than complete alienation of foreign capital and expertise will hurt them? In the long run?

Yes, I'm sure.

[Arrian]

Temporary alienation is more likely. There's oil in that there jungle. Foreign investors will be somewhat gun-shy for a while, but eventually they'll come back (most likely after Chavez is gone).

What remains to be seen is if he can actually improve the lot of Venezuela's poor, or if it's more empty promises (lots of S.A. leaders have promised the Sun, Moon & Stars to their people, who are eventually disappointed).

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Originally posted by techumseh
The oil companies have held sway in Venezuela since oil was discovered there in the 20s.

They've held so much sway that the government nationalized and stole everything from them in the 1950's? The outlawed them until the mid 90's when the government once again needed their technology only to find the government stealing their property a second time?

Yep, they've clearly had total control.

[Velociryx]

Chavez could crash the Ven. economy into a ruin that'd take thirty years to recover from, and the Red-Squad here (and elsewhere) would STILL try to spin it as an act of pure commie genius....

Watch and see!

-=Vel=-

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten


Why am I getting all the replies when all I did was reword NYE's post?

Because yours was the one I saw.

[Winston]

Chavez could crash the Ven. economy into a ruin that'd take thirty years to recover from, and the Red-Squad here (and elsewhere) would STILL try to spin it as an act of pure commie genius....

Watch and see!

Well, it's their religion afterall.

Dogmatic thought and no questions asked is of course featured prominently.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Chavez could crash the Ven. economy into a ruin that'd take thirty years to recover from, and the Red-Squad here (and elsewhere) would STILL try to spin it as an act of pure commie genius....

Watch and see!

-=Vel=-

No, the spin will be that Chavez was interfered with - the big bad USA and other evil capitalists messed up his utopian plan, so it's not his fault that it didn't work.

After all, remember that "they" tried to overthrow him already (the much-alleged, totally unproven "coup attempt").

-Arrian