Prayer does not heal the sick, study finds

[Provost Harrison]

This whole "G-d" business...it reminds me of the stoning scene off 'The Life Of Brian'

[Dis]

what a stupid study. Of course praying for others will have no effect.

This seems self evident.

But I have seen studies of how the attitude of the one who's sick can greatly improve recovery. Simple things like having sunshine, flowers, and music can speed recovery. And of coures the belief that you will get better. It's all about inner mind control. What other people believe of course is going to have no bearing.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Arrian

Ah, "culturally Jewish" is how I've always termed that. I have a couple of friends who fall into that category. Humanist Judaism is a better term.

But what you said was "ive recently been struggling with different approaches to Judaism some of which are more, and some of which are less traditionally theistic." Less traditionally theistic didn't sound like "atheistic." In any event, perhaps I was mistaken

I see the distinction as less than relevant. If Kaplan says that G-d is the sum of all the natural forces that make for good in the world, and if some Spinozan inclined mystic says that G-d is a name for the underlying unity of all things, and if Rosenzweig, while denying traditional ideas of G-d, says that G-d must be identified with love, and as the partner in a dialogue, i want to know how these ideas relate to each, to Jewish tradition, and most importantly, to how I live my life. I dont really care whether they fit into a box that says "theist" or "humanist". Those boxes seem important to me only to "fundamentalists" - to people looking to sniff out heresies. Some posts here sound like one variety of such fundamentalism - looking to sniff out the theistic heresy. I myself, would rather stand with the heretics


As for the books of the bible, I was not referring to what we can learn from them historically (which is probably rather limited, according many historians) but to what we can learn from them spiritually, when we drop the plain literal reading of the text, and explore them creatively, as generations of Jews have done.

Just the other day I was reading Elie Wiesel on the story of Noah. Asking poignant questions about mass death, survival guilt, personal responsibility, the need to question G-d. An excellent work. I highly recommend it, if you have the interest.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian

Probably because that falls more into the "historical" category, whereas Job falls into the "cultural" category.

Job, is a good man, one of the best in the world, so much so that he is the one chosen for the test. Yet he is a gentile. This is a point that I wish some of my more narrow-minded coreligionists would reflect on more intensely.

[Arrian]

As for the books of the bible, I was not referring to what we can learn from them historically (which is probably rather limited, according many historians) but to what we can learn from them spiritually

Whereas I, a very un-spiritual person, do see value there historically... perhaps political history, in the particular case of Canaan. It's not likely that we can read the text and know with any certainty "what really happened," but it makes for interesting discussion... and you never know what archeologists are gonna dig up!

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Bill3000


So you are saying that praying doesn't work when it's being studied?
How is this any different from the claims by psychics? It's quite simple. No statistically significant difference in the health of people who had not been prayed and those who have. The most logical explanation would be that praying has no effect, not that it isn't working because we are "probing God."

Bill, if it did work, it would represent the first step in prayer no longer being in the realm of the supernatural, but instead being just a science, like Physics.

In 200-300 years (maybe less) we would have sections devoted to the study of prayer (and possibly other, 'supernatural' things), like there is now sections devoted to the study of physics or biology.

I mean, consider lightning. At 500 BC, it was Zeus throwing thunderbolts, at 1760 AD it was being studied as electricity. In 500 BC it was supernatural, at 1760 AD it was science.

So for prayer to remind supernatural (like I beleive it is), there would have to be a null result from this experiment (note that I can't determine if this experiment returns a null result or a negative one).

Jon Miller

[DinoDoc]

Yep, the trend continues. Threads on Poly that have religion or religious words in the title are inevitably boring rehashes of every other thread on the subject we have here. I wish I hadn't clicked on this one.

[Spec]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
A prayer is a petition of sorts. What you wish would happen. It comes true if it fits His plan.

His plan sucks...if he even exists. Run a business like God runs the world and you'll be bankrupt in a month.

Spec.

[Arrian]

Got something insightful to say on the subject of religion, Dino, to save us all from this dismal repetition?

-Arrian

[Spec]

Originally posted by Dis
But I have seen studies of how the attitude of the one who's sick can greatly improve recovery. Simple things like having sunshine, flowers, and music can speed recovery. And of coures the belief that you will get better. It's all about inner mind control. What other people believe of course is going to have no bearing.

Spec.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Arrian
Got something insightful to say on the subject of religion, Dino, to save us all from this dismal repetition?

-Arrian

Are you kidding me?


Spec.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
Got something insightful to say on the subject of religion, Dino, to save us all from this dismal repetition?

If you can tell me what makes this thread any different from this one currently on page 2 (of all places), I might be tempted to do something.

[Arrian]

I was offering you the opportunity to help make this thread different (or start a new one). Not very tempting, though, eh?

edit: and yes: this thread lacks the always delightful Urban Ranger vs. Dashi sidebar.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Spec


His plan sucks...if he even exists. Run a business like God runs the world and you'll be bankrupt in a month.

Spec.

Just because you aren't privy to the whole story...
If you work, and only conduct yourself properly when you know the whole story, you won't be there long.
Sometimes there's not time to explain all to you, sometimes it's a "need to know" scenario.

God or business will truck on, with or without you.

[Gibsie]

This is all really silly. Even if the religionists were to "win" the argument, all that would prove is that God is actually a total ***hole who decides how much aid to give to people based upon how many people worship him. Feel free to argue that this is the case, however, in which case you're basically arguing that prayer is a protection-racket. Now on your knees or you'll all suffer!