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Scalia's son serving in Iraq creates appearance of bias?

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  • Scalia's son serving in Iraq creates appearance of bias?

    This sure is turning the normal argument on its head, isn't it?

    The anti-war folks normally berate the congress because few of the congresscritter's children are fighting in the war. Leaving aside whether this is true or not, now a group of generals is berating Scalia because his son fought in the war.



    Scalia's Recusal Sought in Key Detainee Case
    Retired Officers Say Justice's Impartiality Is in Question After Remarks on Combatants

    By Charles Lane
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, March 28, 2006; A06

    On the eve of oral argument in a key Supreme Court case on the rights of alleged terrorists, a group of retired U.S. generals and admirals has asked Justice Antonin Scalia to recuse himself, arguing that his recent public comments on the subject make it impossible for him to appear impartial.

    In a letter delivered to the court late yesterday, a lawyer for the retired officers cited news reports of Scalia's March 8 remarks to an audience at the University of Freiburg in Switzerland. Scalia reportedly said it was "crazy" to suggest that combatants captured fighting the United States should receive a "full jury trial," and dismissed suggestions that the Geneva Conventions might apply to detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    Scalia's remarks "give rise to the unfortunate appearance that, even before briefing was complete, he had already made up his mind" about issues in the case, the lawyer, David H. Remes, wrote. Noting that Scalia reportedly had discussed the rights of accused terrorists in the context of his son Matthew's recent tour as an Army officer in Iraq, Remes wrote that this creates an appearance of "personal bias arising from his son's military service."

    The case to be heard today -- Hamdan v. Rumsfeld , No. 05-184 -- is one of the most important terrorism-related cases to reach the court. It is a challenge by Osama bin Laden's former chauffeur, now being held at Guantanamo Bay, to the legality of the military commission that seeks to try him for war crimes. Military trials for terrorist suspects are a centerpiece of the Bush administration's anti-terrorism policy, but they have been criticized by human rights activists, especially in Europe.

    The retired officers are Brig. Gen. David M. Brahms, Brig Gen. James P. Cullen, Vice Adm. Lee F. Gunn, Rear Adm. John D. Hutson and Rear Adm. Donald J. Guter. They have filed a friend of the court brief in the case opposing the military commissions, on the grounds that denying Geneva Conventions protections to detainees at Guantanamo Bay could result in their denial to U.S. troops by their captors abroad. Scalia's speech was first reported by Newsweek's Web site on Sunday.

    Newsweek quoted Scalia as describing European reaction to Guantanamo Bay as "hypocritical."

    In his letter to the court, Remes said Scalia's reported reference to the Geneva Conventions was of particular concern to the retired officers as it is directly at issue in the case. Their brief supports the view of the petitioner, Salim Ahmed Hamdan, that the conventions apply to him and could entitle him to a court-martial trial like that which U.S. soldiers receive.

    Other calls for Scalia's recusal came yesterday from the Center for Constitutional Rights, a civil rights organization that supports the challenge to the military commissions, and from Rep. John D. Conyers (Mich.), the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee.

    Court rules say that justices must recuse in cases where their impartiality "might reasonably be questioned." But it is up to each justice to make that decision. Court analysts said yesterday it is unlikely Scalia will recuse from the case.

    This is the third time in recent years Scalia has faced pressure to recuse. In 2004, he recused from a case on the constitutionality of the phrase "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, after speaking out on the case at a rally in Virginia.

    Last year, he faced calls for his recusal from a case involving Vice President Cheney after it became public that they had gone duck hunting together. In that case, Scalia refused to step aside.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    The quotes in question...

    In a speech to Swiss law students at the University of Freiburg on 8 March, Justice Scalia dismissed the idea that detainees had rights under the US constitution or international conventions, Newsweek reported.

    "War is war, and it has never been the case that when you captured a combatant you have to give them a jury trial in your civil courts," he is quoted as saying.

    "Give me a break."

    Asked whether Guantanamo detainees have any rights under international conventions, Justice Scalia reportedly answered:

    "If he was captured by my army on a battlefield, that is where he belongs.

    "I had a son (Matthew Scalia) on that battlefield and they were shooting at my son and I'm not about to give this man who was captured in a war a full jury trial. I mean it's crazy."

    Mr Scalia is also quoted as saying he was "astounded" at the "hypocritical" reaction in Europe to Guantanamo.
    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #3


      Scalia reportedly said it was "crazy" to suggest that combatants captured fighting the United States should receive a "full jury trial," and dismissed suggestions that the Geneva Conventions might apply to detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

      Scalia's remarks "give rise to the unfortunate appearance that, even before briefing was complete, he had already made up his mind" about issues in the case, the lawyer, David H. Remes, wrote. Noting that Scalia reportedly had discussed the rights of accused terrorists in the context of his son Matthew's recent tour as an Army officer in Iraq, Remes wrote that this creates an appearance of "personal bias arising from his son's military service."
      =!

      "Berating Scalia because his son fought in the war."

      I'd say nice try, but that's being too generous.

      -Arrian
      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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      • #4
        Let the good times roll!!!!
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Arrian




          =!

          "Berating Scalia because his son fought in the war."

          I'd say nice try, but that's being too generous.

          -Arrian
          Ditto. Dan seems to be engaging in an awful lot of spin here.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


            Ditto. Dan seems to be engaging in an awful lot of spin here.

            Maybe he figured that since he's so good at spinning with economic issues by using fuzzy math, that he would give this a try.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe what most of the Generals have complained about is that Scalia made a public speech in Switzerland where he claimed foreigners fighting the US had no rights under the constitution. These remarks were made by Scalia when the Gitmo case (dealing with this exact issue) was pending a hearing by SCotUS.

              Retired Generals Want Scalia Off Gitmo Case

              Retired Generals Want Scalia Off Gitmo Case
              Monday, March 27, 2006
              (03-27) 17:40 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --

              Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was asked Monday to stay out of a case involving a foreign detainee because of remarks Scalia made about the rights of enemy combatants.

              Speaking at the University of Freiberg in Switzerland on March 8, Scalia said foreigners waging war against the United States have no rights under the Constitution.

              Justices were hearing arguments Tuesday in the case of Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a former driver for Osama bin Laden. His lawyers argue that President Bush overstepped his authority when he ordered Hamdan and other alleged enemy combatants to face special military trials.

              Hamdan's lawyers have not called for Scalia to step aside. Instead, five retired generals who support Hamdan's arguments sent a letter late Monday to the court with the request that Scalia withdraw from participating in the case. They say Scalia appears to have prejudged the case.
              (snip/...)
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                In a speech to Swiss law students at the University of Freiburg on 8 March
                Speaking at the University of Freiberg in Switzerland
                what morons. First they spell it in german, which is wrong, since the official name is in french. Then they attempt to anglicize it. Why dont they just call it by its official name: its the University of Fribourg.
                "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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                • #9
                  Isn't Freiberg a town in Germany? I think I've been to it.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Isn't Freiberg a town in Germany?

                    yeah, thats why hes a moron

                    swiss law students
                    in switzerland
                    "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My well considered and qualified legal opinion:
                      Scalia's comments was a respresentive of his past published opinion in the earlier SCOTUS case from a couple years ago, bering on civil rights. There are not a statement directly on point in the pending case, which has a much narrower issue, to determine the executive authority and due process requirments regarding the current form of military tribunal. The motion to recuse is entirely without merit (which is why it was not made by the petioner attorneis) and is nothing more the a political publicity stunt.
                      Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
                      Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
                      "Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
                      From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"

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                      • #12
                        "War is war, and it has never been the case that when you captured a combatant you have to give them a jury trial in your civil courts," he is quoted as saying.

                        "Give me a break."
                        Hey Imran what did I tell ya?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You are going to side with Scalia now? Nice to know your principles are for sale if someone who disagrees with you on most things says one thing you like .

                          I also wonder what Constitutional provision he's citing for that opinion... or whether his argument is entirely history? You know, the history argument... the one that says homosexual sodomy should be illegal since it always has been .
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You are going to side with Scalia now?
                            He and I agree on a historical fact - the US has never afforded POWs a "right" to a trial by jury. But you consistently hold him out as someone you admire and respect, not me.

                            Nice to know your principles are for sale if someone who disagrees with you on most things says one thing you like .
                            what principle have I sold?

                            I also wonder what Constitutional provision he's citing for that opinion... or whether his argument is entirely history? You know, the history argument... the one that says homosexual sodomy should be illegal since it always has been .
                            When did he say that? If he did I have to wonder why you think he's worthy of respect, but I suspect you just made that up.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              what principle have I sold?


                              Using someone as an authority who you never have used as one before on similar issues (Constitutional jurisprudence).

                              When did he say that?


                              Lawrence v. Texas

                              “It is obvious to us that neither of these formulations would extend a fundamental right to homosexuals to engage in acts of consensual sodomy. Proscriptions against that conduct have ancient roots. Sodomy was a criminal offense at common law and was forbidden by the laws of the original 13 States when they ratified the Bill of Rights. In 1868, when the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified, all but 5 of the 37 States in the Union had criminal sodomy laws. In fact, until 1961, all 50 States outlawed sodomy, and today, 24 States and the District of Columbia continue to provide criminal penalties for sodomy performed in private and between consenting adults. Against this background, to claim that a right to engage in such conduct is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition’ or ‘implicit in the concept of ordered liberty’ is, at best, facetious.” 478 U.S., at 192—194 (citations and footnotes omitted; emphasis added).


                              Today’s opinion is the product of a Court, which is the product of a law-profession culture, that has largely signed on to the so-called homosexual agenda, by which I mean the agenda promoted by some homosexual activists directed at eliminating the moral opprobrium that has traditionally attached to homosexual conduct.


                              But you consistently hold him out as someone you admire and respect, not me.


                              He is a very good lawyer and jurist. So is Justice Ginsberg; so was Justice O'Conner. Why shouldn't I respect him for his intellect? Though if you believe I've signed onto his originallist argument as a result, then you haven't been paying attention.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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