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Teh EV!L Israeli Lobby

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  • Teh EV!L Israeli Lobby

    The protocols of Harvard and Chicago
    By Tom Segev

    Stephen Walt is a professor of international affairs at Harvard University, and John Mearsheimer is a professor of political science at the University of Chicago; in their circles, they are considered important scholars. This week, the two caused a major uproar with a long essay about the influence of the Israel lobby, which they published in the March 23 issue of the highly prestigious London Review of Books. Their main assertion: The United States was dragged into the war in Iraq to promote the interests of Israel, as opposed to its own real interests. That happened, claim the two, because of the influence of the Israeli lobby in Washington.

    The essay is worthy of attention because of its timing, three years after the start of a war that is now being viewed as one of the greatest failures in U.S. history. It cannot be dismissed as anti-Semitic nonsense, nor should it be attributed to the conspiracy theories produced by Noam Chomsky and his disciples.

    The link between the Israel lobby and those in the White House who pushed President George W. Bush into attacking Iraq, leads Walt and Mearsheimer to assert that support for Israel no longer promotes the national interest of the United States, and that it is doubtful whether it ever did: At most it promoted politicians, who gave in to the Israel lobby because of its influence on voters, both Jewish and non-Jewish. Support for Israel is too expensive - $500 annually for every Israeli (not so much, actually) - and brings America into conflict with the Arab world; U.S. support for Israel led to the attack on the Twin Towers, write the two professors (this requires a more profound explanation).

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    The Israel lobby often claims that Israel and the U.S. share basic values. Not true, claim the authors: Israel's policy of occupation is not consonant with the basic values of American democracy. That is quite a pathetic argument: Israel held the values of democracy sacred at a time when several states in the United States were still prohibiting blacks, including the descendants of the slaves, from traveling in the same bus as whites. Even today, the United States is far removed from the values of justice that it presumes to represent, with its racial discrimination, death penalty and a concentration camp in Guantanamo.

    In fact, it can be claimed that U.S. support for Israel reflects the fact that neither country respects the values of democracy, but this claim would destroy the thesis of the two respected scholars. Similarly, they do not confront the fact that the Israeli lobby in the U.S. usually operates by the accepted rules of the game in America, and expresses the view of a majority of Americans.

    The article is very arrogant: Most of it is written in the past tense, as though reflecting historical research. In fact, the authors' academic degrees do not make their opinions any more worthy than those of readers of the newspapers that they often cite, including Haaretz, Maariv, Yedioth Ahronoth and the Jerusalem Post. The editor who allowed the two to touch on so many topics that are irrelevant to the issue did not do them a favor: Yitzhak Shamir did in fact operate as a terrorist, but the Britons whose rule he wanted to eliminate also defined the fathers of American independence as terrorists. And who even remembers Shamir today? Similarly, I wouldn't have dragged the murder of Ilan Halimi in Paris into this debate: What for, dear professors? After all, not every anti-Semitic incident in the world is an Israeli invention, wouldn't you agree?

    What begins as an attack on Israel and its lobby, soon turns out to be part of a domestic debate: One gets the impression that Walt and Mearsheimer attack U.S. support for Israel because they don't like President Bush. One can understand them. Apparently, they won't be angry if the Israel lobby decides that Bush is bad for Israel, and works against him. Nor would they be opposed if someone were to convince the administration to force Israel to withdraw from the territories.

    They are right: Had the United States saved Israel from itself, life today would be better. Therefore, the authors are also correct in the most important argument in their essay, which unfortunately is too incidental: The Israel lobby in the United States harms Israel's true interests. It made the continuation of the occupation and the settlements possible. Its influence led, among other things, to missing out on a peace treaty with Syria and to a loss of the opportunities created in Oslo. The effort to suppress the Palestinian national movement did not enhance Israel's security; on the contrary, it brought Hamas to power.

    Now there is great excitement there in America on account of this essay, but maybe not really. Israel's influence is based on an ancient anti-Semitic myth about the Jews who rule the world. This is a myth that is self-fulfilling as long as the world believes in it: If you shatter it, you have eliminated Israel's influence. From that point of view, Walt and Mearsheimer are doing the Israel lobby a good service.

  • #2
    Eventually jews outside of Israel will either marry with non jews and be assimilated, or emigrate to Israel.

    That is what will kill Israel lobby in foreign countries.
    I need a foot massage

    Comment


    • #3
      Many many american christians see in the modern existence of israel biblical prophecies made true, and think the end of the world return of jesus will all be based around things that hapen to the state of israel, and that is an important reason for them to support Israel.

      (sorry for my awful spelling)

      Many israelis are in denial on the reasons why americans are allies of Israel.
      I need a foot massage

      Comment


      • #4
        I want my 500$, Siro.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #5
          I read the paper. It was pretty well reasoned and would count as uncontroversial outside the US and Israel.
          Only feebs vote.

          Comment


          • #6
            "The Jews who rule the world".

            This guy is a moron, Siro. He needs a punch in the head, not a newspaper column.
            Only feebs vote.

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            • #7
              The guy is open to hjis opinion, but his statement about "Israel held democracy sacred while the US still had segregation" is hardly an argument against the statement, which I believe to be quite accurate, that the policy of occupation is against basic American values.

              Also, the policy of occupation began AFTER the passage of Civil Rights legislation in the US, so its even more bunk.

              Also, why would I give a **** about what Tom Segev thinks? And his insinuation in the title that Walt and Mearshimer are in some way anti-semetic is utter bull****. I had a class with Walt and have spoken personally qwith Mearshimer, and that insinuation is an insult to them both.
              If you don't like reality, change it! me
              "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
              "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
              "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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              • #8
                duh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GePap

                  Also, why would I give a **** about what Tom Segev thinks? And his insinuation in the title that Walt and Mearshimer are in some way anti-semetic is utter bull****. I had a class with Walt and have spoken personally qwith Mearshimer, and that insinuation is an insult to them both.
                  But you are just saying this to mask your own anti-semitism GePap. Everyone knows that people like you and I only oppose Israel because of our deep-seated hatred of Jews. What we really want is Hitler Part II!!!!
                  Only feebs vote.

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                  • #10
                    Tom Segev is a moron
                    urgh.NSFW

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                    • #11
                      Anyone got a link to the paper in question. I don't buy the arguement that they just don't like Bush and that is the reason for thier stand and would like to see how much of a mischaracterization this editorial is.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's the original article.



                        Enjoy... or foam at the mouth...
                        Only feebs vote.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I usually find Mearshimer's opinion's to be well-reasoned. I even own one of his books. Why would I foam at the mouth?
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc
                            I usually find Mearshimer's opinion's to be well-reasoned. I even own one of his books. Why would I foam at the mouth?
                            No idea. Maybe you were bitten by a rabid animal...
                            Only feebs vote.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why did you guys try to sink the Liberty?

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