Help the Islamic World - Contribute!

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
The problem with the Islamic World is their governments and the tie with religion. Though we (particulary America) aren't the people that should be blundering in there trying to fix it.

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Well, regardless of the poster's content, it's good to see people outside of Europe, North America, NZ/AUS posting on here.

We had an Iranian on here over a month ago. Also, lets not forget our friend Serb. Its great to see such a diverse group here.

[fed1943]

MonwarH:I deeply sympatize with your point and I think I can understand it.I'm not Christian,but as a pratical matter is as if I'm.There are no true barrier between religion,culture,ways of living.Sometimes the old ways of living could not be the best for today,maybe there the root of some problems.I never was in the Muslim Far East,but I know quite well the Mogrebh til Palestine and Libane.And I read the Coran,as much as the Bible,the Ghita and the Vedas.Don't give up,be always mercy tyo your neighbour and to the strange you never met.
Best regards,

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MonwarH
I consider myself a 'cultural muslim', if that means anything to you.

It does. I'm an atheist, but my culture is full of judeo-christian values, cultural references, history etc.

[DAVOUT]

In my country there are many marriages of Christian with Muslims. I know a woman who was not very fond of Muslims. She had two daughters and both married muslims, one arab and one black. At the beginning, she forced herself to accept the situation because she loved her girls and did not accept the idea of a conflict. Progressively she discovered that the two guys were nice, hardworking, and opened to advices. The only reference to Islam she made was : “I will always be pleased to offer you lunch or dinner, but don’t expect me to respect Islamic limitations; if you don’t want my food, it is your problem, not mine�. And when they have had children, it was the same, they were offered the food that the grandmother was used to prepare for children.
And now, after 4 and 5 years, they share mutual respect, confidence, and reciprocal help when needed, which is quite often.
You will certainly find that quite simplistic, but it works; and the occidental attitude is quite the same: when you are in my country, if you prefer the sharia, it is your problem not mine.

[Vince278]

My wife knows a Moroccan woman that married an American man. He converted to Islam before the marriage. She also knows a Catholic woman that married a Jewish man. Neither converted but the children are being raised Jewish. In either case, both sides learned to accomodate the other.

[MonwarH]

Everyone,

Thanks so much for your responses. I posted this message to three boards, so some collective answers, I will go to the specifics a bit later. I appreciate the positive responses the most of course, but I also acknowledge the negative and 'oh strange!' responses. These are things you expect in these message boards. Not that I am condemning them or something - but I understand there are different opinions to my 'approach'. Some might even be smurfs trolling, but again, no offense intended wink.gif.

When I read through my original thread again, I understood that the message was a bit too broad, and my approach, as written there, seems a bit too... 'righteous' - should we say (which I myself admitted in the second last paragraph)? I totally understand the 'preacher' comment made by one poster. I did sound like a preacher. That shouldn't be. I don't really believe in 'good' or 'bad'. But as another poster put it, philosophically we might understand that people makes different choices, but at the ground level, things will seem 'barbaric'. Not all of us have same tolerance levels. I am not in any 'war against Islam' or something. I am just trying to disseminate some of my values. These values are not exclusively Western, and in fact medieval Islamic culture (contrary to European civilization, 'Medieval' in Islamic History generally denotes a time of great enlightment) did possess some of these values, so I am just trying to promote these among my people which can preferably make our society more stable. Of course there are selfish purposes here, as in all other human endeavours - I am trying to adjust, even if on a very small scale, my society to me. Anyway, there will be time for more of these discussions I guess.

Let me just tell you one thing - the odds are overwhelming for 'Westerners'. The general perception in the Islamic countries agaist 'Westerners' is extremely violently negative (sorry for the adjectives, but it is), especially now. I see some of you 'priding' yourself on being 'True Perverts' or 'choice to ****' - but hey, the fundies aren't being funny when they say what they say. The concept that is often found in these discussions, variations of 'live and let live' is a moot concept in the Islamic World, partly due to the fact that they feel so aggravated 'by the overwhelming offenses committed by the West for hundreds of years' (they 'remember' everything, like the cartoon controversy and there is no reason to think the fundies won't 'go for punitive measures'), partly due to the role of the media, and partly due to theology. Believe me, the 'happy go lucky' approach won't work, neither would the unjustified heavy handed approach. You need to approach these people sincerely, and must also be prepared to totally get rid of some of them and then reconciling with the others. Most of all, you need the help of us 'indigenous' guys, believe me. You can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and I must emphasize it, unless societal change occurs from inside. Look at Iraq, please.

I also don't think I possess the advanced level of English skill required to properly communicate my thoughts. That's why I might sometimes come out as rigid. Please also take that into consideration.

Sometimes it is good to have a bit of support from people 'around the world'. As someone said, it is nice to talk all you want in message boards, but we are kind of in the 'ideological frontline'. A little bit of support from you goes a long way. No, I am not doing this for 'you', but I believe our mutual objectives coincide.

Regarding common grounds, that's what I am trying to create, a field of understanding. As you said, there are too few common grounds, and I think it would be beneficial for us if we get to understand each other by learning how much we truly share.

I also hope that the perspective I post from allows you to enrich your understanding of our world and bring stability to it. (big words)

Thank you.

-- Monwar

[Vince278]

Thank-you for posting here. Its good to hear the muslim point of view even if we don't always agree.

[bipolarbear]

Can you outline some specifice for us coming together together? I think this kind of discussion is a good thing, but what can I personally do to help the situation?

I own and am currently reading a copy ofthe Qur'an but I don't feel like that is enough or really doing much anyway.

Also, if anyone wants a free Koran, let the internet be your Rasool!

http://www.cair-net.org/explorethequran/request.asp

http://freequran.org/

http://www.freekoran.com/form.php

I submitted requests to all three so I can compare the translations.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Well, regardless of the poster's content, it's good to see people outside of Europe, North America, NZ/AUS posting on here.

Indeed.

[fed1943]

I got your point and I agreesaying simple)only the nice Muslins can realy put off the not so nice Muslins.Same for the Americans.Same everywhere.
I spent some time of my life in the Mogrebh and in the States.Good people,both of them.Just don't let fear to blind you.
Best regards,

[MonwarH]

(Hope invitrations are not illegal or sth)

Friends,

I have recently started a new Yahoo! Group. I believe many of you can contribute positively in the discussions with your unique perspectives.

For more details, please check out the group site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/discussions_worldview/

Not all the group members are as web-savvy or have frequented internet forums as much, though the vast majority have. But anyway, if you do intend to join the discussion, please try to moderate your messages so that everyone can understand what is being said without getting offended.

It would be a pleasure to find you as a member of the group.

-- Monwar Hussain

[Az]

1) welcome to the forums. Always great to see a face from a non EU/US/ANZAC country.
2) as to your questions and statements, I'll put it shortly: I don't consider the islamic world a monolithic entity. However, the fact that countries are still considering themselves islamic and religious disturbs me. I have nutcases like this in my own country, wanting to make the country and society religious - I hate them, and reserve the right to hate any such people around the world.

I see that you're agnostic - excellent! (though it would be better if you were atheist ) Fight to spread the anti-religious message and idea in your country as much as you can - convince as many surrounding people as possible in your ideas, or at least have a meaningful discussion on the issue.

As to the west, sadly in the west, and here as well, a notion that "all ways of life are equal" has taken root. Beliefs, even the darkest and most dangerous of them all are to be treated with respect, it seems. You shouldn't expect any of their help, at this point - the only people there who can even be suspected of wanting to bring other ideas to the islamic world have been tainted by the obvious show of incompetence that is current Iraq, as well as allegations of greed - and these are the neocons.

In any case, good luck to you, and may organized religion lose the battle for hearts and minds.