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12th Round: US Lumber Lobby on the Ropes

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  • 12th Round: US Lumber Lobby on the Ropes


    Canada wins another round in softwood battle with U.S.
    Last Updated Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:32:18 EST
    CBC News
    Canada has won another free trade ruling in the softwood lumber dispute with the United States, the federal government says.

    Canada's battle with the United States over softwood lumber tariffs has been raging since 2002.
    The NAFTA decision found that Canadian softwood exports are not subsidized, the government said. That means the U.S. never had the right to impose the $5.2 billion in duties it has collected on Canadian lumber imports, a spokesperson said.

    "This is a huge victory for Canada," John Allan, president of the the B.C. Lumber Trade Council, said in a release.

    "This is the second NAFTA panel comprised of a majority of Americans to have unanimously ruled that there is no merit to the U.S. allegations, first regarding injury, and now regarding subsidy."

    The council said the unanimous decision by three Americans and two Canadians is final, although the U.S. government can seek an "extraordinary challenge committee" to review the ruling.

    The council said the decision requires the U.S. Department of Commerce, which imposed the duties, to revoke them. Moreover, the ruling will enable Canadian producers to go to the U.S. Court of International Trade to seek the return of the duties the U.S. has collected.

    "The United States has taken the outrageous position that it does not have to refund money it should not have collected to begin with," Allan said.

    U.S. groups reject, welcome ruling

    The U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports was not happy with the ruling.

    "The NAFTA panel decision issued today is gravely flawed, and signifies a potential end to an important antidote in the U.S. lumber industry's efforts to counter the poison that is Canadian lumber industry practices," coalition chairman Steve Swanson said.

    The Canadian industry gets "enormous subsidies" and "we will not stand for this absurd and unjust result," he added.

    But a group representing U.S. lumber consumers welcomed the ruling.

    "It is clearly time for the U.S. to honor its treaty agreement with Canada, and to end these illegal duties that continue to harm American consumers," said Susan Petniunas, spokesperson for American Consumers for Affordable Homes.

    The Commerce Department and U.S. industry say Canadian timber is subsidized because provinces sell it to producers at below-market prices. Some World Trade Organization rulings appear to support the U.S. position.

    The Commerce Department has collected $5.2 billion in duties on Canadian exports since penalties were first imposed in 2002. The duties were cut in half, to an average of 10.81 per cent, in December.

    The coalition says the dispute can only be resolved by negotiation involving "Canadian commitments to solve this unfair trade problem." It has challenged the constitutionality of NAFTA.

    Canada has been willing to negotiate, but so far, no acceptable deal has emerged from the talks. The return of the duties is believed to be a sticking point.

    International Trade Minister David Emerson said the ruling will strengthen Canada's position in talks with the U.S.


    We want our $5.2 billion back. Pay up, deadbeats!
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  • #2
    Check is in the mail.....
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
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    • #3
      How about ya'll take off those price caps on medicine.
      "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
      "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
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      • #4
        Why? You're parents are tired of being able to buy cheaper medicine from Canada?

        Can we file this along side the lumber industry thinking Americans would like to pay more for homes?
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        • #5
          Being from Texas, my parents can't really drive to Canada. 5,000 square feet of house can cost under $100k though.
          "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
          "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
          "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
          "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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          • #6
            Economics 101: Supply and Demand

            In Canada most of the timber west of Quebec (which is ****loads of leafy or needled things) is cut on Crown (public) land. Lumber companies bid on logging rights to large areas. The price they pay the various provinces for the right to cut trees on public land is called stumpage.

            There is a lot of land. And a lot of trees. The aforementioned ****loads. The rate a lumber company is forced to pay for the right to cut timber is relatively low (on a per board foot level) compared to the cost of owning land in other more developed and densely populated jurisdictions.

            Result. There is a very high supply of cheap Canadian timber. It's a geographical advantage for the Canadian lumber industry (large parts of which are American owned). Get over it.

            And pay up.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Apocalypse
              How about ya'll take off those price caps on medicine.
              Why?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Apocalypse
                Being from Texas, my parents can't really drive to Canada. 5,000 square feet of house can cost under $100k though.
                Does being from Texas make them incapable of using a computer and ordering over the internet?

                And the price of a house in the US, anywhere, went up after your lumber lobby got Clinton's administration to start the latest round of the softwood war.

                I'm sure you're happy to pay another 2 to 3 $K for a house, to drive up the cost of lumber to the benefit of a few landowning lumber companies, right?
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by notyoueither


                  Does being from Texas make them incapable of using a computer and ordering over the internet?

                  And the price of a house in the US, anywhere, went up after your lumber lobby got Clinton's administration to start the latest round of the softwood war.

                  I'm sure you're happy to pay another 2 to 3 $K for a house, to drive up the cost of lumber to the benefit of a few landowning lumber companies, right?
                  I'm very against all of this, it's just that it isn't a US only thing.

                  And they didn't go up everywhere. Some places of the US have a good enough logging industry. Other houses aren't even made with wood.

                  I think buying into the timber lobby was horrible on Clinton's part.

                  And ordering over the internet isn't really good enough for coming out on top when insurance pays for part of it.

                  (I have no idea with my parents' case...I don't really talk to them anymore, this is just in general)
                  "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                  "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                  "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                  "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
                    Why?
                    It's not very free tradish.
                    "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                    "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                    "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                    "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Apocalypse

                      I'm very against all of this, it's just that it isn't a US only thing.
                      NAFTA is a very US, Canada, and Mexico only thing.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by notyoueither


                        NAFTA is a very US, Canada, and Mexico only thing.
                        I'm well aware.

                        I'm just saying Canada doesn't fully abide either.

                        And I thought NAFTA was over. Dead serious now. Following Texas politics, it's pretty much over with Mexico for 9/11 reasons.
                        "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                        "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                        "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                        "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Apocalypse

                          It's not very free tradish.
                          Canadian companies are under the same restrictions.

                          How is it not free tradish?
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Apocalypse

                            I'm well aware.

                            I'm just saying Canada doesn't fully abide either.
                            How and where?

                            And I thought NAFTA was over. Dead serious now. Following Texas politics, it's pretty much over with Mexico for 9/11 reasons.


                            What are you smoking?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by notyoueither


                              Canadian companies are under the same restrictions.

                              How is it not free tradish?
                              I'm willing to bet the pill industry in the US is larger than in Canada.
                              "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                              "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                              "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                              "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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