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Congress to to make it so Companies don't have to fund pension systems

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  • Congress to to make it so Companies don't have to fund pension systems



    (long article, the following is an excrept)

    With a strong directive from the Bush administration, Congress set out more than a year ago to fashion legislation that would protect America’s private pension system, tightening the rules to make sure companies set aside enough money to make good on their promises to employees.

    House Majority Leader John A. Boehner has been a driving force behind changes to the pension bill.

    Then the political horse-trading began, with lawmakers, companies and lobbyists, representing everything from big Wall Street firms to tiny rural electric cooperatives, weighing in on the particulars of the Bush administration’s blueprint.

    In the end, lawmakers modified many of the proposed rules, allowing companies more time to cover pension shortfalls, to make more forgiving estimates about how much they will owe workers in the future, and even sometimes to assume that their workers will die younger than the rest of the population.

    On top of those changes, companies also persuaded lawmakers to add dozens of specific measures, including a multibillion-dollar escape clause for the nation’s airlines and a special exemption for the makers of Smithfield Farms hams.

    As a result, the bill now being completed in a House-Senate conference committee, rather than strengthening the pension system, would actually weaken it, according to a little-noticed analysis by the government’s pension agency.

    The agency’s report projects that the House and Senate bills would lower corporate contributions to the already underfinanced pension system by $140 billion to $160 billion in the next three years
    Gee now isn't that great- companies don't feel like paying for the Pensions they promised their workers, so let's just assume they die younger! Sheesh..
    "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

    "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

  • #2
    This is just stupid. All that will happen is that the people will live longer then the (newly downgraded) expectations and the company will have an even greater pension short fall. I imagine the reason for this is so that companies can continue to underfund their pension liabilities without the government stepping in to force them to properly plan for their obligations. That's never a smart thing.

    The end result is to make the pension system insulvent faster so that a future corporate crony like Bush can claim the system is broken and needs to be privatized. Of course if you deliberately run it into the ground then it will become insulvent.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      I thought you liked companies being able to **** their workers. Lets have some consistency here, you two.
      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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      • #4
        Not at all. I like to have lower costs to encourage start ups and employment growth but I hate these things which are deliberately designed to **** the system up. If I wanted that then I'd be a Republican.

        Speaking of Republicans and pension problems the main reason why the City of San Diego is now $2 billion in debt is because Republican politicians tried to buy union support by promising huge new pension benifets for city workers then systematically not funding those benifets. Just like the Republicans in Congress are now doing they kept putting off their required contributions (knowing someone else would be in office when the bill came due) and then all of the sudden $1 billion came due in one year. The city's yearly budet is just $2 billion.

        That's what playing accounting games does. It allows politicians to hide huge obligations until all of the sudden everyone finds out that they've been shorting the system for decades and it's to late to fix the problem. That is what this Republican bill will do to most pension funds in America.
        Last edited by Dinner; March 19, 2006, 13:58.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          Did you expect anything different? Don't believe what Bush says.

          Anyway, most people are in defined contribution plans, so won't be affected (401k's can't involve any speculation... money has to go into the participants accounts as soon as it can be reasonable segregated from general money of the employer). So, at the very least, it isn't as bad as it could have been.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • #6
            [q=Oerdin]That is what this Republican bill will do to most pension funds in America.[/q]

            Incorrect. Most pension funds in American are not defined benefit plans.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #7
              I meant most traditional pension funds including most government pension funds. This is a crock.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                More erosion on pension funds for workers? There's a surprise I presume the wealthy bosses would never have to worry about such a shortfall with their wealth and their large bonuses to back them up in retirement. Pure, utter hypocrisy...
                Speaking of Erith:

                "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                • #9
                  You mean the 1% of wealthy bosses that don't have to worry?

                  I'm sure the 'wealthy bosses' in small businesses who are going through personal bankrupcy won't agree. Though that is no excuse for underfunding, but not every boss is living it up who is defaulting on defined benefit pension obligations.

                  Most of the problem is underfunding because the company is falling fast and the owners, when the government catches up with them, are in dire financial straights. Now that isn't an excuse for them at all, but, as they say in the South, "you can't get blood from a turnip". Not every boss is sitting at the top saying "Let them eat cake".
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #10
                    I wasn't really referring to smaller businesses as such, although they should understand the pension situation, learn from history, and make sure they don't have the same pitfalls...
                    Speaking of Erith:

                    "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Provost Harrison
                      I wasn't really referring to smaller businesses as such, although they should understand the pension situation, learn from history, and make sure they don't have the same pitfalls...
                      That's the reason most of them are going to 401k's. Even there there are problems (remittances going in too late), but its far easier to track.

                      The one problem with small businesses is that they depend very heavily on their third party adminstrators. ERISA (the pension law in the US) is very complicated, and you can basically find a violation in just about any plan, even those with high priced advisors.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #12
                        Re: Congress to to make it so Companies don't have to fund pension systems

                        Originally posted by Shi Huangdi

                        Gee now isn't that great- companies don't feel like paying for the Pensions they promised their workers, so let's just assume they die younger! Sheesh..

                        I thought most conservatives such as yourself are happy to support elitist plans to screw workers over?





                        sarcasm
                        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                        • #13
                          ...even sometimes to assume that their workers will die younger than the rest of the population.
                          Quite easy to see how that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                            I thought you liked companies being able to **** their workers. Lets have some consistency here, you two.
                            My bad, I forgot how you have to be in favor government intervention on behalf of workers in all cases or none-or-all, you're on either one side or the other. Won't make the mistake again Mr.President!
                            "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                            "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                            • #15


                              Well played.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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