Getting on the property ladder

[Dinner]

Property has definately gotten more expensive over the years. My parents were able to get married and buy a newly built house in the suburbs at 22 (well Dad was 22 and mom was 21). Try doing that now days.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JohnT
However, when people start losing their houses because their ARM's went up on their oversized, no-down-payment balloon mortgages, you'll be blaming that on Bush too.

How so? I, unlike other people, do not simply blame Bush for everything and have even recently started threads in support of Bush. I give credit and blame where due so if you insist on arguing against me please be kind enough to actually deal with what I say and not what you wish I'd say or what someone else said.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by JohnT
Why is affordable housing an "entitlement"?

I agree that it is not an entitlement but affordable housing is something a healthy society should have.

[Kontiki]

So again, we return to it's the government's responsibility to ensure that you can afford to buy a place where you want for a price you consider reasonable?

Edit: In response to PH

[Provost Harrison]

Not solely, but they need to release the land for such construction, or sort out the many derelict properties that exist - unused...

[Dinner]

Part of it is releasing land for construction and approving construction so new units can be produced, but, there is also the issue of how to make more units. Building new units is very expensive so developers tend to only build when they're almost assured a return on their investment (which is sensable from their point of view). Perhaphes there are ways the government lower the cost of new construction to insure the finished product is more affordable.

Also the market tends to distort the types of units built to the most profitable types instead of the most needed types. For instance here in Southern California the most profitable developments tend to single family detached homes in the suburbs which few people can afford. What we really need is high density developments so that everyone can find an affordable place to live. The problem is the high density apartments 1) require more upfront capital 2) tend to have more volital prices (which developers don't like) 3) tend to have much lower profit margins (they can make more money on a smaller investment building 1 unit which they sell for $20m instead of 20 units they sell for $1m each because they've built 1 unit instead of 20 units) 4) it is easier to get approval from authorities to build 1 unit instead of 20 or 100 units. The end result is that we've seen an explosion in the construction of mansions over the last 25 years but the construction of high density housing is just beginning to catch up. As a society we can't just build the profitable mansions and instead the government needs to make sure cities are planned to be functional and that all of the citizens can find a place to live.

That might mean strong arming developers (I.E. you want to build this McMansion then you have to build this affordable housing division and if you don't like it then you get to build nothing), it might mean subsidies, it might mean special low interest or low down loans to first time buyers, or a number of other things but something must be done.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by JohnT
Why is affordable housing an "entitlement"?

It's not obviously, but it should be if you want an egalitarian society. If people can't afford housing you create a class system.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Not solely, but they need to release the land for such construction, or sort out the many derelict properties that exist - unused...

But wouldn't that bring down the value of existing houses?

[Provost Harrison]

That's the idea

[C0ckney]

the housing problem in this country is a very complex issue and solving it will require some real thinking and tough decisions, so don't expect this government to do much about it.

whaleboy, i really don't know why you're thinking of buying a house now, i mean you're younger than me, free and single, plenty of time to worry about things like this later on

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
That's the idea

I like it as it is now. (ie I've got a house!!)

As an avowed socialist the smug feeling this gives me is quite disconcerting.....oh well.....

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by C0ckney
the housing problem in this country is a very complex issue and solving it will require some real thinking and tough decisions, so don't expect this government to do much about it.

whaleboy, i really don't know why you're thinking of buying a house now, i mean you're younger than me, free and single, plenty of time to worry about things like this later on

for the first part - so totally true... the only point is if the gov doesn't solve it a recession certainly will, and it won't be pretty.

As for the second part - the dude is just trying to be reasonable and catch a few years more with "lots" of money on his bank account, but I am aftraid that getting on the property ladder with 20k in London is well - mission impossible.

The only way is for three of you (as I doubt even 2 would be enough income) to unite and buy something. But than again, when you split, it won't be pretty either... so all in all wait or invest abroad - that is actually a sensible "investment" strategy. not one that sorts out your day to day living problems though, you still lose on the rent

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave


for the first part - so totally true... the only point is if the gov doesn't solve it a recession certainly will, and it won't be pretty.

As for the second part - the dude is just trying to be reasonable and catch a few years more with "lots" of money on his bank account, but I am aftraid that getting on the property ladder with 20k in London is well - mission impossible.

The only way is for three of you (as I doubt even 2 would be enough income) to unite and buy something. But than again, when you split, it won't be pretty either... so all in all wait or invest abroad - that is actually a sensible "investment" strategy. not one that sorts out your day to day living problems though, you still lose on the rent

Well I need to save up a large enough deposit before buying somewhere, plus I am not too convinced about the long term stability of the market anyway. Yeah, people like to think it is going to last forever and it is different, but that is what has been said every time in the past...

[reds4ever]

So you think that the country is going to get bigger or population smaller? You'll grow old before either happens....;O)

[Provost Harrison]

At some point new people have to buy property when people die, and that is nowhere near possible for the vast majority of people...it has to re-equilibrate at some point...and then hope for your sake that bird flu doesn't create a surplus in the property market