Limits... Self Control... The Law

[Tattila the Hun]

If you want to smoke, don't go into an establishment that has banned smoking.

Illegalising smoking:

[Donegeal]

Yes, but those establisments that have banned smoking, ARE FORCED TO BY THE GOVERNMENT!!! They all have banned smoking, and they are private businesses!

Smoking bans are stupid. Next thing you know, they'll try to ban smoking in your house because people who come to visit might not smoke!!!

[mrmitchell]

A restaurant is a publci place.

Smoking is hazardous to bystanders' health.

Unless you're approaching this from a point of view like Berzerker's, I don't see how you can claim regulating the public health is not a duty of the government.

(If it ain't, it's probably about time someone ought to tell them.)

[Provost Harrison]

I think that on roads like motorways there should be far more discretion regarding speed being travelled, and in modern cars, 70mph on a road like that feels like a crawl...I generally tend to do about 90mph and my car is hardly hugely powerful. And no one obeys the speed limit regardless and we still have some of the safest roads in the world to drive on.

[Sava]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
A restaurant is a publci place.

A restaurant is a private establishment... open to the public.


Big difference there.

Your choice to go into a private establishment that allows smoking is the same as a smoker's choice to light a cigarette.

That's what you need to understand.

Think of it like abortion. You are forcing your moral judgment onto the owner's of the restaurant. You are taking the choice out of their hands. The same as pro-lifers want to do to the women... and your excuse is, you want to save lives... "health concerns".

But honestly... how long do you need to be exposed to second hand smoke for it to be a health concern. Decades.

We are really talking about imposing your tastes here. Let's be honest.

The proper way to handle the smoking issue is by CHOICE.

You don't want to go into restaurants that allow smoking? THEN DON'T.

Nobody is forcing you to do so.

And remember... they aren't PUBLIC PLACES... they are private establishments open to the public. Which is different.

I support smoking bans in public places, BTW. Just not in private establishments.

[Velociryx]

Sava

-=Vel=-

[Az]

1) Speed doesn't cause traffic accidents, traffic causes traffic accidents.
I say this as someone who regularlly speeds. No, I don't feel like a hypocrite as I don't think I have written a speeding ticket in years. Warnings, maybe; tickets, no. If there is no one around, I'm not going to get into an accident unless a deer comes a long and I smash it. And the entire argument about "if you were driving slower you could avoid it" is crap because "if I was driving faster, it would have crossed behind me".

Thank you officer, I concur.

Speeding laws make me very angry, because I hate stupid laws that were made for stupid interest groups. I don't like breaking the law. I feel bad doing it. But what it really does is water away any respect I have for the law as a derivative of ethics.

[mrmitchell]

And remember... they aren't PUBLIC PLACES... they are private establishments open to the public. Which is different.

So? Private places open to the public aren't above regulation. A restaurant can't have a segregated counter. A gas station can't sell cocaine next to the cigarettes.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Donegeal
1) Speed doesn't cause traffic accidents, traffic causes traffic accidents.

I think you miss the point. Speeding doesn't cause accidents in many cases, it just makes the consequences worse.

There are also a good number of traffic accidents that are caused by the drivers unable to react in time.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Donegeal
Yes, but those establisments that have banned smoking, ARE FORCED TO BY THE GOVERNMENT!!! They all have banned smoking, and they are private businesses!

Private businesses must follow certain rules, regulations, and ordiances. Things like fire regulations, or paying taxes.

Opening a business in a modern society is a contract. You agree to follow the rules and regulations, in exchange for (a chance at) making money.

Smoke ban is just part of all that. I don't understand why some people still keep screaming about it.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sava
A restaurant is a private establishment... open to the public.

No, unless they have a different definition of public place in the US.

For example, you can take all your clothes off in your home, but not in the public. If you take all your clothes off in a restaurant, I think you are breaking the law.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, unless they have a different definition of public place in the US.

Yes, they do. Frankly it is strange that China treats restaurants as 'public places'. Restaurants are private areas, which are open to the public, so have to follow some government rules, but not all of them (for example you don't have a right to free speech protests in a restaurant).

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

No, unless they have a different definition of public place in the US.

Yes, they do. Frankly it is strange that China treats restaurants as 'public places'. Restaurants are private areas, which are open to the public, so have to follow some government rules, but not all of them (for example you don't have a right to free speech protests in a restaurant).

Um, you can't even hold up a sign saying "Down with Bush!" in a restaurant?

[DaShi]

You can, but you can also be kicked out for it.

Now try holding a "Down with Hu" sign in China.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


No, unless they have a different definition of public place in the US.

For example, you can take all your clothes off in your home, but not in the public. If you take all your clothes off in a restaurant, I think you are breaking the law.

Actually, that depends on local ordinances. Most likely desentcy ordinances but perhaps sanitation ones. However, cities do allow people to take their clothes off... they're called strip clubs. You get a license to allow people to strip...

Perhaps that would be the only way I would support a smoking ban. Only if a city with a smoking ban allowed licences to let people smoke, sorta like a liquer licence...

Hmm..... I like this.