South Dakota Bans Abortion

[Gatekeeper]

Next up on the chopping block: birth control!

[Jon Miller]

I love how insane some of you proabortion people are

JM

[Gatekeeper]

Personally, I'm pro-choice through the first trimester. After that, though, I change my tune. There's no logic to it ... it's just at that point, I believe the soul has implanted itself. IOW, it's a matter of faith.

I can appreciate the anti-abortion arguments, but here's where I get annoyed: Why do they insist on legislating this issue? Where's all this professed faith in the individual woman to make the right decision? Abortion, like euthanasia, is an incredibly personal issue, and not a decision many make lightly. How in God's name can an interest group and/or legislators know what's best for the woman? They can't. The woman herself, her family and her doctor are the best positioned, and always will be. Anyone else is just butting in where they're not wanted, at least in my book.

Hmm. As I get older, I'm starting to show something of a Libertarian streak on some issues.

Gatekeeper

[Jon Miller]

killing people is why we want to legislate this issue

and I am fine with ending a pregnancy before brainwaves are observed (~ 4weeks?)

JM

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
But a fetus is just a lump of flesh?

Sure. Your point being?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by MrFun
Yeah -- unfortunately, we have some pro-choice people on here who are so cold-hearted as to use such a denigrating epithet.

Is this supposed to be an Appeal to Emotions response?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
killing people is why we want to legislate this issue

and I am fine with ending a pregnancy before brainwaves are observed (~ 4weeks?)

Just because there are brianwaves doesn't mean the foetus is an individual human being. A lot of critters got brainwaves, yet they are regularly killed for meat, fur, etc.

The existing laws protect only human beings, so you need to show whatever you wish to protect is indeed a human being.

[Jon Miller]

brainwaves plus human DNA = human being

JM

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Ramo
Been reading Thomas Frank?

I read his book. Quite interesting and often funny as well. I suspect he might have exaggerated the situation a bit, though.

Also: turning left probably won't help the Democrats.

[Seeker]

well finally someone brought up the ONLY important issue in the so-called abortion debate, which is the need to define sentience.

Sentience, not dna or brainwaves or whatever, is why we accord rights to certain objects like human beings. A corpse has human dna...do we accord it rights? Cows have brainwave activity and a complex social structure...rights?

Nope, sentience is the only reasonable criteria to distinguish a lump of cells from a being with rights...the debate should be about when exactly that is with plenty of 'room for error' and then set that in stone except for rapes, etc.

I'd say the end of the third month when dreaming begins is a good 'cut-off' date.

[Az]

Sentience, not dna or brainwaves or whatever, is why we accord rights to certain objects like human beings. A corpse has human dna...do we accord it rights? Cows have brainwave activity and a complex social structure...rights?

It has to be both. I think you figured it out yourself when typing, yet still proceeded with the post. shame on you.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Seeker
well finally someone brought up the ONLY important issue in the so-called abortion debate, which is the need to define sentience.

Sentience, not dna or brainwaves or whatever, is why we accord rights to certain objects like human beings. A corpse has human dna...do we accord it rights? Cows have brainwave activity and a complex social structure...rights?

Nope, sentience is the only reasonable criteria to distinguish a lump of cells from a being with rights...the debate should be about when exactly that is with plenty of 'room for error' and then set that in stone except for rapes, etc.

I'd say the end of the third month when dreaming begins is a good 'cut-off' date.

That is why I said both human DNA and brainwaves..

JM

[Sikander]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

from what i gather SCOTUS wont knock it down though. RAther the lower courts will do so, and SCOTUS will refuse to take the appeal. So the law goes down, but SCOTUS doesnt have to reaffirm Roe.

Why should they sully themselves with such a stupid law? It dies in the first court it reaches and there will be no successful appeal.

[Gibsie]

In Britain we're going to start letting women have chemical abortions in the comfort of their own homes. This will at least ensure that abortions are performed more rapidly, before the chance of brainwaves, sentience or whatever you want to call it happens.

[Bill3000]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
brainwaves plus human DNA = human being

JM

So any animal GMed with human DNA is human?