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The Proto-Indo-Europeans

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  • The Proto-Indo-Europeans

    In another thread Aneeshm disputed the fact that Indo-European people came from outside India. This contradicts the vast majority of historians who say that the Proto-Indo-Europeans were the bronze-age Kurgan people, seminomadic pastorialists who lived on the steppes Ukraine and SW Russia (the Anatolian hypothesis, which states that the PIEians were neolithic farmers, is pretty much discredited). As Brachy-Pride posted in the other thread, the upper caste people have European genetic markers, Spencer Wells, in his book The Journey of Man, says the same thing.

    Timeline of the Indo-European migrations:


    4500–4000: Early PIE. Sredny Stog, Dnieper-Donets and Samara cultures, domestication of the horse (Wave 1).

    4000–3500: The Yamna culture, the prototypical kurgan builders, emerges in the steppe, and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus. Indo-Hittite models postulate the separation of Proto-Anatolian before this time.

    3500–3000: Middle PIE. The Yamna culture is at its peak, representing the classical reconstructed Proto-Indo-European society, with stone idols, early two-wheeled proto-chariots, predominantly practicing animal husbandry, but also with permanent settlements and hillforts, subsisting on agriculture and fishing, along rivers. Contact of the Yamna culture with late Neolithic Europe cultures results in the "kurganized" Globular Amphora Baden cultures (Wave 2). The Maykop culture shows the earliest evidence of the beginning Bronze Age, and Bronze weapons and artefacts are introduced to Yamna territory. Probable early Satemization.

    3000–2500: Late PIE. The Yamna culture extends over the entire Pontic steppe (Wave 3). The Corded Ware culture extends from the Rhine to the Volga, corresponding to the latest phase of Indo-European unity, the vast "kurganized" area disintegrating into various independent languages and cultures, still in loose contact enabling the spread of technology and early loans between the groups, except for the Anatolian and Tocharian branches, which are already isolated from these processes. The Centum-Satem break is probably complete, but the phonetic trends of Satemization remain active.

    2500–2000: The breakup into the proto-languages of the attested dialects is complete. Proto-Greek is spoken in the Balkans, Proto-Indo-Iranian north of the Caspian in the emerging Andronovo culture. The Bronze Age reaches Central Europe with the Beaker culture, likely composed of various Centum dialects. The Tarim mummies possibly correspond to proto-Tocharians.

    2000–1500: The chariot is invented, leading to the split and rapid spread of Iranian and Indo-Aryan from the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex over much of Central Asia, Northern India, Iran and Eastern Anatolia. Proto-Anatolian is split into Hittite and Luwian. The pre-Proto-Celtic Unetice culture has an active metal industry (Nebra skydisk).

    1500–1000: The Nordic Bronze Age develops pre-Proto-Germanic, and the (pre)-Proto-Celtic Urnfield and Hallstatt cultures emerge in Central Europe, introducing the Iron Age. Migration of the Proto-Italians into the Italian peninsula (Bagnolo stele). Redaction of the Rigveda and rise of the Vedic civilization in the Punjab. The Mycenaean civilization gives way to the Greek Dark Ages.

    1000 BC–500 BC: The Celtic languages spread over Central and Western Europe. Proto Germanic. Homer and the beginning of Classical Antiquity. The Vedic Civilization gives way to the Mahajanapadas. Zoroaster composes the Gathas, rise of the Achaemenid Empire, replacing the Elamites and Babylonia. Armenians succeed the Urartu culture. Separation of Proto-Italic into Osco-Umbrian and Latin-Faliscan. Genesis of the Greek and Old Italic alphabets. A variety of Paleo-Balkan languages are spoken in Southern Europe. The Anatolian languages are extinct.
    Another wki page with maps showing the migrations in relation with the language subfamilies:

  • #2
    The Kurgan hypothesis was originally suggested by Marija Gimbutas in the 1950s. According to the Kurgan hypothesis, early PIE was spoken in the chalcolithic steppe cultures of the 5th millennium BC between the Black Sea and the Volga.

    Currently, her theories do not hold credence with most reputable scholars.
    KH FOR OWNER!
    ASHER FOR CEO!!
    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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    • #3
      the flooding of the Black Sea region was what, 7500 years ago?
      Last edited by Berzerker; March 5, 2006, 03:27.

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      • #4
        The ancient Indian texts also say the Indian people came from somewhere else. They refer to themselves as the conquerors.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
          The Kurgan hypothesis was originally suggested by Marija Gimbutas in the 1950s. According to the Kurgan hypothesis, early PIE was spoken in the chalcolithic steppe cultures of the 5th millennium BC between the Black Sea and the Volga.

          Currently, her theories do not hold credence with most reputable scholars.
          While the Kurgan scenario is widely accepted as one of the leading answers to the question of Indo-European origins, it is still a speculative model, not normative.


          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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          • #6
            Don't ask me. I was just reading Odin's wikipedia link and was wondering why his own source said that the Kurgan hypothesis was not credible.
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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            • #7
              Corded Ware culture? Are they saying that this vast proto-Indo-European culture was held together by travelling household goods salesmen?
              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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              • #8
                Currently, her theories do not hold credence with most reputable scholars. Ms. Gimbutas's so-called Kurgan peoples theory relies heavily on Kurgan burial mounds. Unfortunately, it is unproven that these so-called Kurgan peoples were ever members of the Indo-European culture-linguistic group. Precisely because known ancient Indo-European cultures, (i.e. the Indo-Aryans [people of India], the Greeks, Estruscan/Romans, and the ancient norse peoples), universally practiced cremation and not burial.

                Emphasis in Wiki. This kind of bolding, and of argument, makes me feel that the author of this paragraph has an axe to grind with the Kurgan hypothesis.
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                • #9
                  That's the first I've ever heard of "ancient norse people universally cremating their dead". We have huge burial mounds all over the place dating from the time of the vikings, and I find it hard to believe that even more ancient norse would have favoured cremation. In any case, I've not seen any reports of such findings.

                  Seems to me one wiki-user had a vivid dream one night.

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                  • #10
                    Kurgan

                    The enemy cannot push a button if you disable his hand.

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