Legalise prostitution? I'm for it!!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Oh, and prostitution IS abuse of women even if it's sanctioned by law and its victims protected from physical assault.

While I find that statement is probably true in many cases, I reject it as a blanket statement and actually find it paternalistic and condescending to women.

If a woman of her free will ( a big IF and kind of the point since some would argue that no one would freely do this) wants to earn a lot of money selling her sexual services, who am I as a man to dictate that this is abusive to the woman?

In my view, prostitution is often just as much about women using men. They know men want what they have and that some poor sap will empty his wallet for just a few fleeting monents of physical contact.

here in Canada there are a large number of independent women ( do a search by city for escorts) in the sex industry. I remember seeing some paper where it indicated that the pimping element was prevalent in the street trade here but was not present much with respect to these "indys". (I'll have to try to locate that again)-- The conclusion was that these women acted for themselves since the trade was so lucrative

So if a beautiful woman is charging 250-300 bucks an hour and making 3000 -5000 a week . . . all to her (2-4 guys a day 5 days a week), is she being abused. Does that abuse continue when she is vacationing in the caymens?? when she buys her beamer?

I know this is the minority and that mosts prostitutes are probably far too young, drug addled, abused coherced etc. But to make a blanket statement, it should apply to everyone and I just don't think thats the case.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If a woman of her free will ( a big IF and kind of the point since some would argue that no one would freely do this) wants to earn a lot of money selling her sexual services, who am I as a man to dictate that this is abusive to the woman?

I'd imagine some single mothers working at McD's to support their kid are in a far worse situation than some prostitutes. And especially if the practice was legalized, there would be far more protection for the business.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I'd imagine some single mothers working at McD's to support their kid are in a far worse situation than some prostitutes. And especially if the practice was legalized, there would be far more protection for the business.

True. In Canada, its weird since its "semi-legal". Thats an imprecise phrase since the law here is just weird. There is NO law against prostitution but there are laws against

communicating in a public place for the purpose of prostitution ( aimed at the street girls and their customers but could arguably extend to website advertisments)

Keeping or being found in a common bawdy house (brothel)

procuring a prostitute for another
living off the avails of prostitution (pimping-- does not apply to the prostiture)

So the law basically dictates for a prostitute to work legally they must always do their business in private but it can't be the same place all the time.

Then the city gets involved with an "escort bylaw". All escorts must be licenced. Apparently its some huge fee like 3000 bucks or something for the business licence and then a few hundred per escort. So this drives girls to the agencies (ie pimps) to avoid being bothered by the bylaw folks since one girl operating alone would have to pay the 3000 I think .

So you have an activity thats legal but cannot be discussed publicly nor can the pro have a regular place.
We just had a court decision in Calgary where a guy was convicted of living off the avails but the judge immediately stayed the conviction since the guy was complying with all his city licencing requirements and therefore had a reasonable belief of the legality of his activity. (mistake of fact defence ??) . . . I'll have to see if the judge issued written reasons . I know in the trial they essentially put the City on trila by making it abundantly cleat that the licencing officers and police all know that every escort in Calgary is a prostitute

[Arrian]

In my view, prostitution is often just as much about women using men. They know men want what they have and that some poor sap will empty his wallet for just a few fleeting monents of physical contact.

To an extent, sure. The same basic idea applies to strippers. It's the basic reason I don't like strip clubs. It's not that my morals are offended... I feel like *I'm* the one being used. Bah.

I'm of two minds about legalizing prostitution. On the one hand, much like drug use, it's not gonna go away regardless of legality/illegality, and there are some good arguments supporting legalization. On the other hand, there are the issues of giving the trade governmental sanction (doesn't sit too well w/me) and how to properly protect the workers from abuse (first problem: properly define abuse).

-Arrian

[Flubber]

Abuse to me is any unwanted touching or acts. No means no. You would still have to look for people forced into it and they could require an interview so people in dire financial situations couldbe made aware of programs that could help them


I guess you could require ID of all customers, have security and equip each girl with a panic button. If the ID is discarded after a successful date, the customers could have some anonymity and the girls would have some protection.

If you put safeguards in place I suspect that the abusive guys would avoid this and simply continue to beat up their wives and girlfriends. If a customer is in a government brothel he would know there is security. heck if you wanted to you could have the girl text an "I'm ok" message every 10-15 minutes. It would give the pro something to do to fill the time and electronic is so small these days, you could hide a panic button anywhere

As for legalization being a sanction, it will probably be like stripping is now-- legal but many young girls would never consider it.

[Arrian]

I guess. You lot have a go at it and we'll watch.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Isn't legalisation supposed to stop that?

I am certain it at least vastly reduced it.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Oerdin


I am certain it at least vastly reduced it.

Yeah, it's not.
Overhere in Amsterdam the top-criminals own the buildings of the red light district. Do I need to say more?

And like I said, it's legal overhere.
I hope we can soon get rid of the "if it's legal it'll become clean as well" dream.
We more or less legalized drugs as well overhere. You think it's clean now? Hell no.

The thing is, if the item is destroying lifes (drugs, prostitution) it'll never be clean, not even if you legalize it. Of course fundamentalistic liberals will claim it can be clean. But that's why they're fundamentalistic liberals.

[Arrian]

Of course fundamentalistic liberals...

A fundamentalist liberal. What's that, a Libertarian?

-Arrian

[binTravkin]

What's the aim of making something illegal?
It's a way how people are trying to make it go away from their society.

On how effective such prohibitions are, we all know.
And we all know that prostitution is one of the oldest things (rumours are it was invented shortly after sex ).

So, what's the point?
It's like saying 'I outlaw war!'.

And the fact that several countries have more or less legalised it, thus improving lives of the participants of industry, their offered services and reducing crimes as well..

[Arrian]

What's the aim of making something illegal?
It's a way how people are trying to make it go away from their society.

On how effective such prohibitions are, we all know.

Well, we outlaw murder too, and that's still happening.

And the fact that several countries have more or less legalised it, thus improving lives of the participants of industry, their offered services and reducing crimes as well..

That's certainly the theory. Are there any good statistical studies proving this out, though?

-Arrian

[Mao]

Originally posted by CyberShy
The thing is, if the item is destroying lifes (drugs, prostitution) it'll never be clean, not even if you legalize it. Of course fundamentalistic liberals will claim it can be clean. But that's why they're fundamentalistic liberals.

Hmmm...so the same could be said for smoking and alcohol?

[binTravkin]

That's certainly the theory.

Not really, see Netherlands, or other countries where it's more or less legalised.
There are certainly signs of bad things (like signs of forced prostitution) there, but they're far inferior to what's happening in countries where there's not so much tolerance.

Are there any good statistical studies proving this out, though?

I doubt it's possible to even make one.
Im not aware of late converts to legalised prostitution, and even if there were, a veteran forumite could always find a thousand of other reasons why crime has gone down, STS cases have gone down and tax income from the service area has gone up.

EDIT:
Besides, where prostitution is illegal, there's so much 'hidden' prostitution, unaccounted for in statistics, that the statistics themselves bear little relevancy to the situation.
I live in a country sex tourism is abundant and I think only a person seeing those things himself, can outweigh was it better before legislation or is it after.

[binTravkin]

The thing is, if the item is destroying lifes (drugs, prostitution) it'll never be clean, not even if you legalize it. Of course fundamentalistic liberals will claim it can be clean. But that's why they're fundamentalistic liberals.

What is 'clean'?
Do you have a single thing around you, that is 'clean'?
I have none apart my love to my closest.

If distincition between 'clean' and 'unclean' is used as an rgument, this discussion can go to closet.

[binTravkin]

This article, particularly the 'History' part, can provide some good brainfood about prostitution too, I'd especially like to note this sentence

Although all forms of sexual activity outside of marriage were regarded as sinful by the Roman Catholic Church, prostitution was tolerated because it was held to prevent the greater evils of rape and sodomy.

which suggests that even in Medieval people understood that prostitution legality has much to do with rape and related crimes.